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Marta Feuchtwanger 

Interviewed by Lawrence M. VJeschler 


Completed under the auspices 

of the 

Oral History Program 

University of California 

Los Angeles 

Copyright (c) 1976 
The Regents of the University of California 
The Sniversity of Southern California 

This manuscript is hereby made available for research 
purposes only. All literary rights in the manuscript, 
including the right to publication, are reserved to 
the University Library of the University of California, 
Los Angeles, and the University Library of the 
University of Southern California. No part of the 
manuscript may be quoted for publication without the 
written permission of the University Librarian of the 
University of California, Los Angeles, or the director 
of the Lion Feuchtwanger Memorial Library of the 
University of Southern California. 

This interview was conducted and processed by the 
UCLA Oral History Program under the shared sponsor- 
ship of the Program and the Feuchtwanger Fund of 
the University of Southern California. 


TAPE NUMBER: XXVI, Side One (September 9, 1975) . . . 1348 

Emigre reactions to the death of Roosevelt and 
the bombing of Hiroshima — News of the death 
camps — P roud Destiny ; a gift to America — 
Hollywood and Lion's novels--Emigre relations 
with visiting Germans — Marta's later return to 
Berlin and Feuchtwangen, 1969--Other emigres 
and postwar Germany — The Red Scare: Lion's 
citizenship postponed — The treachery of Michael 

TAPE NUMBER: XXVI, Side Two (September 9, 1975). . . 1375 

Michael Zweig--Arnold Zweig 's last years. 

[Second Part] (September 12, 1975). . . 1378 

Fritz Kortner in Hollywood — Dorothy Thompson's 
politics — The origins of the Red Scare in the 
World War II period — Alfred Kantorowicz — A 
party at Dalton Trumbo ' s- -American attitude 
toward Soviet Union — Lion and Marta questioned 
by government agents — The situation of 
Japanese-Americans — Into the Red Scare. 

TAPE NUMBER: XXVII, Side One (September 12, 1975). . 1402 

The Red Scare cuts through the emigre community 
— The cases of Hanns Eisler and Bertolt Brecht, 
with sketches of Gerhardt Eisler, Clifford 
Odets, and the House Committee on Un-American 
Activities — Eisler and Brecht back in Europe-- 
Brecht's Arbeits Journal. 


XXVII, Side Two (September 12, 1975) . . 1430 

The attitude of the other emigres toward their 
persecuted fellows — Further tales of the 
emigration of the emigres — Wilhelm Herzog — The 
Devil in Boston : an allegory of the Red Scare 
— Digression on daughters and abortions— Simone 
and Hannah--The production of The Devil in 
Boston ; a star-studded audience--Arthur Miller s 
The Crucible — The writing of Goya . 



TAPE NUMBER: XXVIII, Side One (September 15, 1975) . 1455 

Carl Ebert in the Palisades— A general history 
of the Feuchtwanger finances: wealth and close 
shaves — Emigre writers on Lion— The history of 
the Feuchtwanger Library— Shopping at Dawson s 

Choice volumes: Goethe, Spinoza, the 

Nuremberg Chronicle , a French Revolution 
journal, Voltaire. 

TAPE NUMBER: XXVIII, Side Two (September 15, 19 7 5) . 14 8 5 

continuing the survey of the Feuchtwanger 
Library: Goethe, Buffon, Copper Bible, a book 
on Rome, Rousseau, Shakespeare, Darwin, a 
Benjamin Franklin quartet, and °thers--The 
donation of the library to USC-Why not UCLA. 
--The Bel-Air fire: a very close call. 

TAPE NUMBER: XXIX, Side One (September 17, 1975) . 

An invitation for Lion to cover the Nuremberg 
trials--Lion-s reputation in Europe following 
the war-centum Opuscula-The publishing 
si?uation^^E{I^P^i^r^^'?itics~The dying and 
dispers?ng of tL Southern California emigres 
1945-1950— The remnant— Irving Stone. "^y^°"^^ 
livinq enemy "-Lion's estimation of Stone and 
aars^M^Sh^ner-The Widow C| vs. 
personal error: Nuremberg and McCarthy. 

TAPE NUMBER: XXIX, Side Two (Septen^er 17, 1975) . 

More on The Widow Capet--Phases i" lion's 
writing :7th^ies ^ of books ot, J late__ 

eighteenth century- T^ f^e^si-orr^ledo 

The late Jewish novels. ine ^^^^^^L_ j^^^ 

and Jephta and Hi-,5-2]lte|--Lxon s final 
attiuld^^oward Judaism: Spmoza . 

[Second Part] (September 26, 1975). . 

A further thought on le-ing Munich for Ber^^^ 
early fascism-More on I^^|-£^,^^^^^^^:,^ 

Lion's opinion of ^^^^^'^^^f^^the spectre of 
Lion's citizenship hearing. rne t^ 
premature antifascism. 





TAPE NUMBER: XXX, Side One (September 26, 1975). . . 1570 

Transcripts of Lion's citizenship hearings-- 
Application denied — Following Lion's death, 
"Communist" Marta granted citizenship — On being 
an American — A citizen of the world--Lion ' s 
last days, passing, and funeral--Marta 's period 
of seclusion — Drawn out by the Tochs — Ernst 
Toch's Jef ta symphony — Animal friends: hiking 
and swimming, raccoons and seals. 

TAPE NUMBER: XXX, Side Two (September 26, 1975). . . 1597 

More animal stories: falcons — Tales of the 
Paseo Miramar neighborhood: the Millers, the 
Brodies, Lament Johnson, Marvin Braude--Politics 
in the Palisades. 

[Second Part] (September 30, 1975). . . 1613 

Other denizens of the Paseo Miramar neighbor- 
hood, human and animal: resistance heroes, 
artists, skunks, cats, and rattlesnakes. 

TAPE NUMBER: XXXI, Side One (September 30, 1975) . . 1624 

Further snakes--A young woman in search of an 
abortion--Abortions and illegitimate children 
in Munich, Berlin, Sanary, and Los Angeles--The 
consolation of radio during the McCarthy era — 
Musical friends: Mitslav Rostropovich, the 
Graudans, Gregor Piatigorsky, Henri Temianka, 
Albert Goldberg, and Jakob Gimpel--Henry Miller 
and other literary figures--Guy Endore--Passover 
at Synanon — Other activities, other guests-- 
Giving tours of the library. 

TAPE NUMBER: XXXI, Side Two (October 3, 1975) .... 1652 

An exhibit of children's art from Theresienstadt 
concentration camp--Marta ' s trips back to 
Germany — Contacts with Willy Brandt--A first 
visit to Berlin and Munich: dedication of the 
Feuchtwanger Archive in Berlin — The widows of 
Von Ossietzky and Zweig in East Berlin — A visit 
with Walter Janka--Incognito in Munich--A second 
trip to Mainz and then East Berlin — The film 


TAPE NUMBER: XXXII, Side One (October 3, 1975) . . . 1681 

The film Goya [cont'd] --Last days in East 
Germany — A visit to Prague: Czechoslovakia 
following the ouster of Dubcek--On to Moscow 
and Leningrad--The screening of Goya in the 
Kremlin--Marta, a star--Lion's Russian 

TAPE NUMBER: XXXII, Side Two (October 15, 1975) . . . 1708 

Friends of later years: Dorothy Huttenback and 
other musical friends--The Coes--The Lappens-- 
Henri Temianka--Franklin Murphy — The Louis 
Kaufmans — Pia Gilbert — Carl Sandburg, Norman 
Corwin, and Ray Bradbury — Friends at USC — 
Saving the Watts Towers — Biographer Lothar 
Kahn — The Herbert Zippers. 

TAPE NUMBER: XXXIII, Side One (October 15, 1975) . . 1735 

Final ref lections--Lion ' s greatest works — 
Historical and contemporary novels — A time 
of great change and fundamental continuity-- 
"Nothing human is alien to me" — The formality 
of Germans and the informality of Americans — 
A bohemian late life. 

Appendix A: Sketch of Leonard Wibberley 1744 

Appendix B: Register of Interview Preparation 

Materials 1747 

Index 1759 

Index of Lion Feuchtwanger Works 1813 

ERRATA: p. 1676 does not exist; pp. 1371a, 1428a, 

1431a, 1569a exist to correct the pagination, 


SEPTEMBER 9, 1975 

WESCHLER: Today we're going to finish our discussion 
of the war, for starters, and then we'll move on and 
talk about Lion's writing during this period. The last 
time we talked about the war, we got pretty much to the 
end; however, we really didn't cover one event which leads 
into some other things, and that's the death of Roosevelt. 
What did people feel about Roosevelt in the emigre com- 
munity? How was the news of his death taken? 
FEUCHTWANGER: They all adored him. They were all very 
sad and really deplored his death. I wouldn't know anybody 
who was not for him. They considered him almost like a 
saviour. Everything what he did was all right with the 

WESCHLER: There's a good deal of talk recently about Mann's 
feelings about Roosevelt. 

FEUCHTWANGER: I only know that he was received by Roosevelt, 
I don't know more about it. 

WESCHLER: Apparently, though, Mann especially liked 
Roosevelt very much. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, yes, like everybody. There was not an 
WESCHLER: How about Brecht? 


FEUCHTWANGER: I don't think he was against him. We never 
spoke about him, about those things, but I don't remember 
that he ever spoke against Roosevelt. 
WESCHLER: Do you remember any particular incidents 
involving Roosevelt's death and how that was responded to? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Just that everybody was sad, a great 

WESCHLER: The next event after that, as the war was 
coming to an end, was the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and 
Nagasaki . 

FEUCHTWANGER: We didn't realize what that means, of course, 
In a way we were glad; we thought it would shorten the 
war and that less Americans would have to die. But when 
we heard the reaction of Einstein, his desperation about 
it, then we thought more about it. We heard more about 
it, that what Einstein was fearing was that it could be 
used later in a very deplorable way and it could mean just 
the destruction of the world. But at first we always 
thought it was war, and we thought every arm is good 
enough to save the lives of the Americans. And not to 
have to invade Japan was a great fortune in a way; we 
knew about the little islands, how many had to fall. Only 
afterwards we heard also that it was in a way not neces- 
sary because the war was already at an end and the Japanese 
were already ready to surrender. Some people say it was 


only a warning against Russia. But in the first moment 
we didn't know about that. We didn't think about that. 
WESCHLER: When the war had ended in Europe and continued 
on the Pacific front, was there any separation in your 
mind between the urgency of fighting Germany as opposed 
to the urgency of fighting Japan? 

FEUCHTWANGER: But we knew that America didn't want to 
fight Japan. It was the Japanese who began with Pearl 
Harbor. And it was an enormous loss, all those battleships; 
it was even very dangerous in those days. And they 
feared also that the Japanese could bomb California and 
the whole coast. We had here a brownout, which was almost 
a blackout, and also they said that near Santa Barbara 
there was once a bombing from a ship. But nobody really 
knew if it was true or not. 

WESCHLER: But did you listen for events in the Pacific 
with the same urgency with which you had listened to them 
in Germany? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, not so much. As soon as Germany was 
conquered and we were victorious, we knew that everything 
is over now, and the war with Japan would only need some 
time. But we Were sure that Japan has no chance anymore. 
And that was also the reason why later people said it 
was not necessary to use the atom bomb. 
WESCHLER: You mentioned that after you had read Einstein's 


feelings about it, that your opinions began to change. Was 

there any anti-nuclear-weapon movement in the community 

early on? 

FEUCHTWAl'JGER: I don't know about the community. I only 

know about ourselves. 

WESCHLER: And how was that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I told you. First, we were glad about it, 

and then we realized that it was maybe not necessary, and 

we didn't realize before how terrible it was. 

WESCHLER: Did you participate in any public manifestations 

against it at all? 

FEUCHTWANGER: There were not public manifestations in those 

days. It was still the war on, you know: you couldn't make 

public manifestations during the war. Nobody would have thought 

about that. Even those who were against it wouldn't have 

thought about it. Even the Communists in America wouldn't have 

thought about it. It was still a war going on, and still the 

American soldiers were over there and in greatest danger, and 

everybody thought only to finish the war as soon as possible and 

as unbloody as possible: as much as is possible not to lose 

the lives of too many Americans. That was the only reason 

why they were glad about the bomb. 

WESCHLER: On the other side, the news of the end of the 

war in Germany also brought with it, of course, the news of 

the camps and the actual tallies of who was.... 


FEUCHTWANGER: Qh, yes, ja, ja. It was mostly through 

Eisenhower who published what they found in the camps. 

He gave free all those news. All those reporters were 

allowed to bring all the news about the camps which was 

otherwise still all under censorship. 

WESCHLER: Were there at this time many people who 

you had known personally who you were finding out had 

been killed in the camps? 

FEUCHTWANGER: In those times we didn't know any names. 

It was only later when people came over who were saved 

or so. Of course, we knew of people who were living 

in America who lost their relatives. There is no family 

who has not lost parts of their family. Even we had 

also. From my family, there were most of them, I think, 

lost then: I never heard about them anymore. When I 

came back to Germany, I didn't know where to ask about 

them. And from my husband's family, there were fifty 

people who have died in concentration camps. But this 

has only been known later. 

WESCHLER: In what part of the family? In the immediate 


FEUCHTWANGER: The Feuchtwangers , you know. 

WESCHLER: Of Munich. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. An aunt of my husband, the sister 

of his mother, and many others in the family. The nearest 


family. I had no near family anymore: I had no brother 
and sisters, and my parents had already died. But I 
heard about other families. I even don't know who died 
or not. I heard [things] later on from people, in the 
sixties even, when they came here. For instance, one 
man [Henry Heinz Kaufmann] came who made his doctorate 
dissertation at USC in about 1970; he was already an older 
man (he was near seventy himself) , and he was a rich 
broker and wanted to retire and to study and make his 
doctorate dissertation about Lion Feuchtwanger . But 
he was not from the Feuchtwanger family; he was from 
my family, from my father's family. It was only a chance 
that he wanted to write about Feuchtwanger. He didn't 
even know that I was here. He heard that at the univer- 
sity. And then he told me also that many of the family 
have died in concentration camps — of m^ family. But I 
didn't know about that before. So later on I heard al- 
ways again. Once I was invited at a tea party here in 
the Palisades, and I met the daughter of a cousin of 
mine [Karl Landauer] , and she said he died in a concen- 
tration camp. He was a doctor. He was already very weak, 
and when the Red Cross sent packages, he didn't eat them, 
he didn't accept them; he said, "Give it to the younger 
ones." And then he died from starvation. But you heard 
those things when you were invited at a party. 


WESCHLER: So the joy at the end of the war was tempered 
by these reports. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Very much, yes. But, of course, it was 
such a relief, the end of the war, it cannot be imagined, 
because we all knew that those people who died, died for 
us also, the Americans. We always recognized that, that 
these soldiers died for us. 

WESCHLER: In the context of that, we might talk a little 
bit about Proud Destiny . You were telling me off tape 
the way in which Lion.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, he didn't want to ask for citizenship. 
We had our first papers, but he didn't ask for the second 
papers before he had published his novel. Proud Destiny . 
He said, "I don't want to come here with empty hands. 
This is my gift which I give to America as recognizing 
what they have done for me." But he never published 
that or told it to anybody else; he just told it to me. 
WESCHLER: Let's talk a little bit about the book. How 
had it started in his mind? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, in his mind it started very, very 
long ago, even when he was still a young man. He always 
was attracted by Benjamin Franklin, his pragmatic ways 
and also his--what they called in those days "a man of 
all seasons," a man who knew every science and so. 
[Lion] always tried and thought he would like to write 


about him, but he never saw the man himself: he knew 

about what he did, but he couldn't see the man himself — 

the person, the man as a human being. And Lion said 

that it was only when he came here, all of a sudden, 

that it happened: he saw him. 

WESCHLER: How so? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know what it was. Maybe it was 

everything in America. I think also the American people, 

of course. Because there are very great differences 

between the Americans and the Europeans. Here they were 

much more hearty and neighborly and friendly, and in 

Europe most of the people were individuals. In France, 

for instance, you could say everybody hated even his 

neighbor, and it was almost the same in Germany. And 

here it was — it's just the contrary. And I think it has 

helped a lot for him to see the man Franklin. 

WESCHLER: There's also a good deal about Beaumarchais 

and Voltaire and all. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but he made so many studies about the 

French Revolution and all that, it was just his everyday 

life, almost, you could say. 

WESCHLER: So, work on Proud Destiny proceeded during the 

war years; he worked on it after Double, Double [the Lauten- 

sacks ] apparently? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, after Double, Double , he began with 


Proud Destiny . 

WESCHLER: Did it proceed easily or was it difficult? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Nothing proceeded easily for him. He was 
always — everything was difficult. Even if he knew so much 
about the French Revolution, but he didn't know enough about 
America. So he had to make much research, and he took that 
seriously too. But then he also said, "Now I know everything 
about the French and the Americans of those times, and now I 
try to forget it all because I want to write the novel. Now 
I'm only interested in the people. It's always in my sub- 
conscious, but it must not be like a historic book. It has to 
be just the environment of the people I want to describe." 
WESCHLER: Did he talk a good deal with any Americans as he 
was writing this? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, he never did that. Also not in Germany or 
in France. He never spoke about his own work. Maybe the only 
person with whom he spoke was Arnold Zweig. Not even with 
Brecht did he speak much about his work. I think when they 
made their walks — you know, I told you about Zweig and Lion — 
then they told each other of their plans. And they were very 
much intrigued; I think they had a lot — it was a great experience 
for everybody to speak about that. Zweig was also very under- 
standing for everybody else's work, and there was never any 
competition between the two. Also Zweig said that he was very 
much influenced by my husband in his novels; they were not 


historical novels, but he tried to write them also as histor- 
ical novels. Education Before Verdun ; it was a little bit 
like Erfolg of my husband, like Success . He wanted that it 
should be history. He knew that it would be history in a very 
few years, and he was right. So he already looked at it as 

WESCHLER: Okay. Do you have any other particular things you 
wanted to say about Proud Destiny before we move on? [pause 
in tape] In later years there was talk of making a fim of it, 
wasn't there? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , it was already acquired as a film, but it 
never could be played. They paid a lot of money for it. All 
those books around here, you know, are always from the movie 
money. But they couldn't find an actor for Franklin. There 
just was no American who would have been right, at least for 
the movie company, to play Franklin. They had a very good 
Beaumarchais — that was Charles Boyer, who burned to play it. 
(He always wrote about it, and when he was here, he spoke 
about it. He was absolutely desperate to play Beaumarchais: 
he said that would be the crowning of his life.) But they 
could not find a man who would play Franklin. I proposed 
an Englishman, Ralph Richardson. But then they said he's 
too English. But see, he was the only one who I could 
imagine for Franklin: he was tall and he had a great per- 
sonality and also humor, everything what was necessary. 


except that they said he speaks too English, that his 
accent is too English. So they couldn't find anybody 

WESCHLER: Later on, Jean Renoir was also interested in 
making it, too, apparently. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he wanted very much, but Milestone 
already had the plans before he came here. And then Jean 
Renoir wanted to make Goya . It was already very far; 
the script was already written by Gina Kaus . And then the 
movie company broke down. (Enterprise was its name.) 
WESCHLER: So, neither of those projects came to anything. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , ja. One didn't come to anything because 
they couldn't find a Franklin, and the other because they 
broke down. [laughter] But that was also another thing, 
because many movie companies wanted to acquire Goya , 
and all tried.... For instance, there was an independent 
company with Robert Rossen. He had many, many Oscars; 
he made All the King ' s Men , for instance. And he wanted to 
make Goya . He went to Spain to make contracts or make the 
necessary steps for the sites, and then he was not al- 
lowed to make it there. And then came MGM who wanted to 
make it, and also they couldn't get any interest in 
Spain; on the contrary, they were very inimical. And then 
came Sam Spiegel, who was the biggest of all. After his 
great success of The Bridge on the River Kwai , he acquired 


Goya and went to Spain, but he came back really abso- 
lutely defeated. With tears in his eyes, he asked my 
husband if he can have another option. So everybody 
paid a lot of options, and it was a lot of money, but it 
never came to pass because in Spain they didn't allow to 
make the film. And without Spain everybody conceded it 
couldn't be made: they needed the landscape; they needed 
the castles; they needed the population and the paintings 
and so. In Spain they didn't allow it probably first 
because there is the Inquisition, and the Catholic 
Church is very powerful there. And then also the descend- 
ant of the Duchess of Alba didn't allow it. He said 
that he didn't want that his ancestor would be shown as 
being painted by an ordinary painter, and even in the 
nude. He was the richest man in Spain. There was a 
big outline once about his daughter's wedding in Life 
magazine. So he was powerful enough not to allow it. 
Franco didn't allow it. 

WESCHLER: Weren't you telling me the other day that the 
Duchess of Alba had no children? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it seems so. That always has been 
said; not only that she had no children, but even that 
she died when she had an abortion. But that didn't 
help anything, because the Duke of Alba was the Duke of 
Alba (he probably became the Duke of Alba later on, when 


he acquired the castles and all, the position). 
WESCHLER: I wanted to come back now to the situation 
right after the war. Did you have any contact after the 
war with Germans who had been in Germany or official 
German government representatives? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Right after the war came from Bavaria 
Walter Kaim. He was with the cultural Ministerium from 
Bavaria, and he visited my husband. During the war there 
was already the consul general from Germany here — no, that 
was not during the war, it was right after the war. But 
before Dr. Kaim came here, my husband, like Thomas Mann, used 
always to read from his manuscript before his new novel 
has been published. He invited his German-speaking friends, 
and [one time] Ludwig Marcuse called him and said, "I 
would like to bring some friends to the lecture. Would 
you allow it?" So my husband said, "Your friends are 
my friends. You just bring them along." And when they 
came through the door, I saw this tall man, a very im- 
posing man, and behind him a beautiful blond lady, with 
blue eyes. And when I saw her — the typical German appari- 
tion — I could not shake her hands. It was just right after 
the war, and I was not ready yet to see any German. And then 
he, the consul general, made a very good impression on us 
all. He was very cultured. Later on I asked my husband how 
Marcuse could bring those two people here in this house. 


And then I heard that during the whole Hitler time, they 
were here. His name was Dr. [Richard] Hertz, and he was a 
great-grandson of the man [Heinrich R. ] Hertz who invented 
the Hertz waves, which has to do with electricity. I 
think this man was Jewish, but it was so far back in his 
family that nobody ever doubted about his German descent; 
he was not in danger in Germany, and neither was his very 
Gentile wife. But they didn't want to stay in Germany, 
just because they couldn't stand Hitler; so they came to 
America with children and were very poor. They lived in 
great poverty until one day he has been asked from Columbia 
University, I think, to make lectures there. So from one 
day to the other, from very great poverty, he became pro- 
fessor. And that helped them during the war. And then 
right after the war, the German government made him consul 
general from Germany. Later on I told Mrs. [Feliza] 
Hertz about this first suspicion I had, and she was very 
angry with me. She said, "How could you think that I could 
be a Nazi?" But we are very good friends now. She became 
also a teacher at USC of German languages. 
WESCHLER: Was that very common of the German government 
to have people who had not been in Germany serve as dip- 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think it was not common because they 
didn't have enough of that, but as much as they could, they 


took, of course, people who were not suspicious, under suspi- 
cion. It was [Konrad] Adenauer in those days. 

WESCHLER: You were talking about the Bavarian Kulturdirigent . 
FEUCHTWANGER: Dr. Kaim was the equivalent to minister of 
culture. (It's called Kultus , not culture, in Bavaria, which 
means also for schools and theater and everything what has to 
do with arts.) And he came to see my husband. 
WESCHLER: And was well received? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, of course. When he came here, we knew all 
what kind of people they were. Mr. Kaim was very Catholic — 
he was from the Catholic party — so we knew that they were also 
enemies of Hitler. But he wouldn't have come here to make 
contact if he had not a pure conscience. Because we could 
find out about everybody what kind of people they were during 
the Nazi time. 

WESCHLER: Had you ever had experiences when you were with 
people where you just couldn't stand being with them because 
you didn't know? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, several times it happened to me. They were 
so blond and blue-eyed — and then they were Jews. [laughter] 
WESCHLER: But have you had any other experiences, even in 
more recent years, where your contact was [clouded]? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, sometimes I had suspicions. [laughter] 
WESCHLER: And it made it disturbing to have contact with 


FEUCHTWANGER: When I was in Germany, of course, there 
were people like Jhering, you know, the critic; during 
the Hitler time, he was general intendant of the Austrian 
Burgtheater [in Vienna]. And he couldn't have been that 
if he was not at least outwardly a Nazi. He came to the 
reception when I was invited for the opening of the Feucht- 
wanger Archives at the Akademie [der Kiinste] in Berlin 
[1969]. There was a big reception: all the press was 
there, and everybody who was somebody, and also the govern- 
ment, and there was also Jhering. And he was a little, 
let's say, timid. He was not his own self, [laughter] 
But still he came. He was one of the great protectors of 
Brecht, you know, and I don't think he was ever a Nazi. 
But we considered everybody who stayed in Germany during 
the Nazi time as a Nazi, of course. In this way we had 
no pity for anybody, although we should have recognized 
that not the whole Germany could emigrate. But my husband 
never — it was more mine, my attitude. My husband always 
made great differences between the Nazis and the Germans. 
He always said there are very few Nazis. And when Hilde 
came, my husband's secretary — she came from Berlin; she 
left Berlin verv late, I think in '39 — she said she never 
met anybody who was a Nazi except in her apartment where 
she lived. In her house, there was one family known as 
Nazis, and they were ostracized by the other people who 


lived in the house. So the Nazis were the ostracized, 
and everybody wanted to help them: her mother was a 
widow, and she had a sister, and they never met anybody 
who was a Nazi in Berlin. And I also heard from other 
people that Berlin was too skeptical to become Nazi. They 
had to go, of course, with the Nazis — they had to shout 
"Heil Hitler" — but they had always their Berlin wit and 
made jokes about it. You could say that there were more 
anti-Nazis in Berlin than Nazis. And we heard that then 
confirmed by people that came later on, and also by people 
who immediately wrote us after the war. For instance, 
the writer [Herbert] Wendt--! told you I think about him. 
He wrote that book [ Ich suchte Adam ] , Wendt was his name. 
His wife [Ingeborg] was also a writer, and she wrote a 
book. Sacrifice Berlin [ Notopfer Berlin], or something. 
She sent my husband a critic about her book where it said 
that it's no doubt that she has learned from Feuchtwanger ' s 
Success , and she was so proud about that. I met them also 
when I was in Germany. They lived in Wiesbaden, and they 
came to see me in Mainz, to meet me the first time. And 
he always sent his books which are very valuable, beauti- 
ful books with illustrations, about biology and archaeology 
excavations. He is a great scientist-writer. 
WESCHLER: Did Lion ever return to Germany? 


WESCHLER: But you did. 

WESCHLER: How long after the war did you return to 

FEUCHTWANGER: The first time in 1969. 

WESCHLER: And was that a big step for you, or by that 
time was it just a natural thing to do? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I was so afraid — you can't imagine: 
I was invited three times to come, and I never wanted to 
go. Willy Brandt, who was still mayor from Berlin, 
invited me the first time; and the second time he sent 
somebody to see me here who was anyway in America and 
he invited me again. And the third time it was when they 
opened the Feuchtwanger Archives in Berlin, in the academy, 
and made a big celebration there with a concert and lec- 
ture from Lion's work. And then there was another enor- 
mous event in Berlin, a reception in a castle. The Araerican 
ambassador was there, and the American commander from 
Berlin came to this event. Not only those people, but 
also our old maid with her husband came (she was still — 
she was not old, I mean "old" only because she was before 
our maid) . All of a sudden somebody jumped up on me and 
kissed me, and that was the former maid. So everybody 
came to this event, and then I felt better. I lived in 
the academy — I didn't want to stay in a hotel — and so I 


felt a little better. But before I went, it was a terrible- 
what shall I say? I had to fight with myself to become 
acquainted again with Germany. 

WESCHLER: What was your feeling in general about that 
when you were there, in terms of this fear? 
FEUCHTWANGER: When I was in Germany, of course, I was 
sure that Berlin was never a real Nazi city, but I wanted 
also to go to smaller towns and to read mostly the news- 
papers. So I went to Feuchtwangen, the town from where 
the Feuchtwanger family came, and there I read the news- 
paper. And I was, of course, also very much celebrated 
there. Today I became a letter from Feuchtwangen, from 
the kind of governor who is there. He had picked me 
up from the station of a nearby town so that it was not 
difficult from where I came. And the first thing what he 
did, he brought me to the old cathedral where there is a 
beautiful old cloister. Before you enter the cloister, 
there was a big sign, a tablet, in old scripture; it looked 
very old, very antique. And there I read the whole his- 
tory of the town written there; and on the right side it 
says, "In 1555, the ancestors of the writer Lion Feucht- 
wanger left town." And it also [says] that from 1883 
until 1958, that's the time of my husband. And then the 
governor apologized that it was not the right year, that 
it should have been '84. But to consolate him, I told him. 


"You know, if it were a woman, it would be bad to make 
him a year older, but for a man it's the same." So he began 
to laugh; until then he was so solemn, he didn't even 
smile. But then there also was a great banquet and a 
beautiful — oh, they cook so good in Feuchtwangen. I can 
only advise everybody to go there. And I was in a hotel 
which was very old, from medieval time, and they showed 
me the basement wall — it was like the [Wailing] Wall in 
Jerusalem--which was really from the Romans and still 
was the wall of the wine cellar. 

WESCHLER: So your fears at any rate were allayed, for the 
most part. Did you have any bad moments in Germany? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I had one bad moment, and that was in 
Berlin. I had a taxi; the taximan brought me to friends 
who invited me, and he said, "How do you like it now here? 
Wasn't it better before?" I said, "You mean before Hitler?" 
And he said, "No, no — during Hitler." So that was the only 
bad experience I made. But he was an old grouchy and 
drunken taxicab driver, so — not drunken, but he seemed to 
drink too much. 

WESCHLER: Did many of the emigres refuse to go back to 
Germany ever? 

FEUCHTWANGER: There are some who never went there. I 
know people who even tried not to fly over Germany when 
they went to Austria or so. They went out of their way 


not to go to Germany. And then I know people who had to 
go to Germany for a kind of business but never stayed over- 
night in Germany; they stayed in Switzerland. And then 
also people who didn't want to speak German anymore, I 
know of some. They forgot their German almost. That's 
very few; that is really the minority. 

WESCHLER: But most of them have gone back to Germany, 
do you think? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, they couldn't come back. Most of them 
had no money to go back. 

WESCHLER: But I mean the ones that were able have gone? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Not many went back. For visits they went 
back, some to visit friends who were still there, old 
friends. Also my husband's secretary went back there. 
She had old friends there who helped the Jews in their 
days and even were in danger themselves. One was the consul 
general for British Columbia. That's her best friend 
[Susanne Simonis] . And she has seen them. But going back, 
there were very few. For instance, Hermann Kesten went 
back, but he lives in Rome. Marcuse is the only one I 
know from our friends who went back to live in Germany. 
Doblin went back, but I think he lived in France later. 
He was for a while in Germany, then went to France. I 
don't know many who went really back. Yes, I think some 
professors went back who were — I don't know where they 


were. Professor Hans Meyer, I think — no, he was in East 
Germany first, and then he went to West Germany. Many 
went back to East Germany, many emigres. But they were 
not all Jewish. There were also many Gentiles who were 
in Mexico, for instance. 

WESCHLER: Okay. Well, moving from the dark moments in 
German history to some very dark moments in American his- 
tory, we come to the period of the late forties. We might 
start with Lion's experience and then move to some of the 
other ones. Lion had written Proud Destiny as a thanks- 
giving to America and then was going to apply for citizen- 
ship. Was his citizenship acted upon at that time? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, it was always postponed. They always 
said they have to make more inquiries. First he had a hear- 
ing here at the Federal Building, and it didn't come out 
very well because they told him that he was "premature 
antifascist." That was a crime in those days. When he 
asked what that means, they said, "In 1915 you wrote a 
poem which is called 'The Song of the Fallen,' and this 
is a premature antifascist poem." And he said, "This 
poem, you can call it a pacifistic poem, but don't you know 
that you were against the Germans in those days and when 
I wrote a pacifistic poem, it would have been in your in- 
terest?" But that didn't help very much. Everything what 
he did once and what he wrote once, they considered as 


antifascistic, premature antifascistic, and this was not 
a man to become the American citizenship. 
WESCHLER: They didn't deny him the citizenship? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, they always said they have to make 
more inquiries. 

WESCHLER: In this context you told me that one day some 
FBI agents were.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, once, that was even before.... I 
must say, during the Un-American Committee, and also the 
McCarthy time even more, every time the bell rang, my 
heart stopped--it was almost like in France when we were 
on our flight from the Nazis--because I always thought 
now we will be called to Washington. And that would 
have been the end of our life, because we had this big 
house and this big library, and in this case we would have 
been expelled from America, could not come back. And we 
could not, like a snail, take our house on our back and 
go to Germany. And even we didn't want to go to Germany 
for all the time. My husband said always he wants to 
go to live for a while in Germany, but then come back. 
He considered this now his home. I must say that I got 
ulcers in those times because I was always so frightened 
every time the bell rang. 

WESCHLER: You actually physically got ulcers? 


WESCHLER: And you told me about one particular time. 
FEUCHTWANGER : Yes, once--that was later; that was much 
later, when my husband again was inquired--there came two 
people here. I don't know — yes, there were two people, 
and the bell rang. I never opened the door, so I called 
out, "Who is it?" And they said, "We are from the FBI." 
I said, "Everybody can say that." Then they said, "We 
have our documents here. We can show you." Then I said, 
"I wouldn't know if those documents would prove anything, 
I never have seen something of the FBI, and I don't open 
the door. If you want to speak with me, you have to call 
me first, and then you have to tell me for what purpose 
you want to speak me. I don't open the door to 
any strangers." And then I went back to the--I had to 
go to the garage, and there is a little corridor where 
I could see to the side street, and there these 
men were going around the house, looking where they could 
come in. They saw me through the window and said, "Ah, 
you are here so we can speak with you. We want to speak 
with you." And I said, "I don't open the door and I don't 
want to speak with anybody. I don't believe you. I have 
no proof to know who you are." And then they said, "Can 
we speak with your husband?" And I said, "My husband is 
in the hospital; he had an operation." Then they said, 
"That we know." So I said, "Why do you ask me if you 


know everything already?" Then they laughed and left 


WESCHLER: You were afraid of being subpoenaed at that 


FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I was afraid that they would leave 

a subpoena. They have to give it to me, you know, and that's 

why I didn't open. 

WESCHLER: You've also mentioned to me in this context 

something to do with Arnold Zweig's son. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. Arnold Zweig's son was at first 

in Israel and was not happy there. He came to America 

to go into the air force, because he was a pilot. 

WESCHLER: This is Arnold Zweig's son Michael. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Michael, we called him Michi . He wanted 

to become a pilot because it was — he was out of school; 

he never could get acquainted really in Israel because 

he didn't know Hebrew and was a little too old already 

to make the school in Israel, not young enough to become a 

good Israeli student. So he wanted to come to America 

and go into the air force. But they didn't accept him 

because he had contact lenses. (In those days the contact 

lenses were not so good: they had to take them out from 

time to time because the eyes teared too much.) So 

he went to Canada and there they accepted him in the air 

force, and he was very good as a teacher. He. taught mostly 


to fly. He had a great feeling for motors and for balance 
and all those things. He was very much regarded as a 
very good teacher. And then he went back to Germany — 
no, first, during the occupation, he was with the Amer- 
ican army in Germany; he was in the secret service. 
But we didn't know what that meant; it was the army 
secret service. And there he met a young girl who was 
an actress. When he came back here he told me that he 
fell in love with this girl, but she's older than he. 
Then I told him, "You have to think that over very care- 
fully, because maybe she would be too old later on for 
you, and then it would be a great responsibility to marry 
her." But, anyway, he went back and married her and then 
came here. She looked nothing special, but the funny 
thing was every woman who came here from Europe became 
a beauty here. It's not the first one. It must be the 
air or the nourishment or the food or the vitamins or 
the fruit or whatever it is — she became very beautiful. 
And they were here for a while, they were very happy, and 
he wanted to become a writer. And he went also to this — 
there was a lady in the East who received many writers, 
also James Jones, who wrote From Here to Eternity (he 
wrote that in her house) , and Michi had the possibility 
to come there, too, and try to write a novel. But it 
was not well enough accepted, and he came back again and 


was then in the animal shelter. 
WESCHLER: He worked for the animal shelter? 
FEUCHTWANGER: He worked for the animal shelter. He had 
this truck and brought the sick or dead animals and all 
that; he took care of that. And it seems that he was 
very good there, too, but his wife was disappointed. She 
said she didn't come to America to marry a man who just 
brings dead animals to the shelter, and it seemed that the 
marriage would get apart. When he was here, he was home- 
sick for Germany and for his parents in East Germany, and 
when he was there he wanted to go back to America. And 
my husband always gave him the money to go back and forth. 
They were not satisfied because they had only a little 
room in the attic in his parents' house, but they had no 
better houses there. His father had at first a chauffeur, 
so he could be his chauffeur and also his gardener, and 
his father wrote always very enthusiastic about his son, 
how beautiful his garden now is, and how glad he is that 
his son is there. But then the son came back and said 
he was very unhappy, also his wife, too, because it was 
too narrow to live together. I can understand that. 
WESCHLER: The Zweigs' housing situation was much less than 
it had been when he had originally lived in Germany? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, before he had two houses, one for the 
family and one was his study. It was not very luxurious. 


but it was very comfortable. And there he had only — all 
was devastated in East Germany and not built up yet 
(they had no Marshall Plan), so he had a simple house. 
I have seen it: it's very nice, a little garden and so, 
but not luxurious either. And then it was not thought 
for two more people. And then [Michael] came back here 
and. ... 



SEPTEMBER 9, 1975 and 
SEPTEMBER 12, 1975 

WESCHLER: We're in the middle of this story about Michael 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , when he came back here, then they came 
both, he and his wife, to our house. We felt already 
they were not very happy anymore, but they did not tell 
anything about divorce or so. Anyway, his wife said to my 
husband, "I brought Michi here, and he has to tell you 
something." Then Michi said that he was in the FBI or the 
Secret Service or the CIA — I don't know exactly what it 
was called in those days — and he had to inform his su- 
periors what he found out. So he has been asked about 
Feuchtwanger , and he said Feuchtwanger was a friend of 
Stalin. And his wife, who was (gentile and from Germany 
and had no interest in anything of Emigration, she was 
very upset about that, and she said, "You have to tell 
Feuchtwanger, so he will know all about what he has to 
do, and he can be prepared if something follows that." 
And of course. Lion was taken aback. But on the other 
hand he was moved that Michi confessed it to him. So he 
didn't say anything, and it was over. Nobody spoke 
anymore about it. And nobody knows about it, except 
Hilde (Lion's secretary) and me. And [Lion] never told 


his parents or wrote his parents. Also, of course, 
his wife knows about it, who later divorced him. Both 
married again. 

WESCHLER: But later on you were able to be friends with 
him. You were still able to be friends? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, nothing has changed. And I think 
my husband even gave him again money to go back to 
Germany. His father paid back something, but it was never 
the same [amount] . It was not always easy for my husband 
because he had so many people to help. And then Michi 
later found a very nice girl in East Germany, but they are 
now, I think, in West Germany, and she's working for the 
movies. That's all I know. He never wrote to me, and 
even when I was in Berlin, in both Berlins, East and West 
Berlin, he never saw me or came to me. Also his mother 
didn't speak much about him, only about her younger son. 
WESCHLER: We haven't really talked very much about Arnold 
Zweig during this period. He had been one of your closest 
friends in Berlin. He had gone to Israel. 
FEUCHTWANGER: He went to Israel. He went first to 
France; he lived for a while in France, in Sanary also. 
He was there, you know, when I had the accident. Later 
on he spoke about that on the radio in Germany, about 
the whole thing. But Brecht never mentioned it anymore. 
Not a word anymore afterwards. 


WESCHLER: Zweig had gone to Israel? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He had gone to Israel, but he was very 

unhappy there. He was not so young anymore; he couldn't 

speak the language, he couldn't write in the Hebrew language, 

and what does he do as a German writer there? 

WESCHLER: Did he want to come to the United States, or 

did he want to go to Israel? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, he didn't think to come here, probably, 

because he didn't have the money to come here. But he could 

go to Germany because the German government invited all 

the writers, all the emigrants, to come back. And he 

got again a house there and even a chauffeur and a car 

which the government gave him. 

WESCHLER: The East German government? 

FEUCHTWANGER: The East German government. 

WESCHLER: Was he happier there, or was he still sad? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, he was happier there. He was very 

much admired, and he was president of the East German 

Academy. And he was a great writer there. I think he 

was very happy. 

WESCHLER: Did you correspond with him much? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, yes, very much. The other day I got 

a book about him, about the last days of his life, from 

a man by the name of [Heinz] Kamnitzer, a very touching 

book [Der Tod des Dichters ] . 


WESCHLER: Did you see him then before he died? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, I haven't seen him anymore, but I 
met his wife still. She was a painter, and when I was 
there, she gave me also a sketch of Zweig which she made 
[during his] last days. [pause in tape] Mrs. Zweig was very 
outspoJcen. She never tried to restrain herself when she 
spoJ^e about Israel or so. But, nevertheless, they let 
her go out of East Germany to Austria or Italy or to see 
her sons in West Germany. 

SEPTEMBER 12, 1975 

WESCHLER: Today we're going to start by talking about 
some of the other people you knew here in that community 
of the forties. One that we haven't mentioned so far is 
Fritz Kortner. You might begin by telling us a little 
bit about him in Germany, whether you knew him there and 
who he was . 

FEUCHTWANGER: He was always a fighting man. In Germany 
he was one of the greatest actors, also in Austria. 
And he played with Reinhardt and with Jessner, in the 
[Vienna] Burgtheater, everywhere, classics, and he was 
a great actor. Although he was Viennese--his accent was 
Viennese for my ears--he had a voice which was Prussian, 
like a trumpet, sometimes. It was in a way very good 
because it was without sentimentality that he played. 


You could say maybe for American taste, he was a little 
sometimes like a ham. But this was the style of the 
German plays, the German classics. But he played also 
Danton, the end of Danton's.... 
WESCHLER: Danton's Death by [Georg] Biichner. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. It was absolutely, you could 
say, like Brecht said, Entfremdung , alienation. Danton 
was considered a very good looking and elegant man, and 
[Kortner] was everything but good looking: he was tall 
and had an imposing personality, but rather ugly. And 
this was his greatest asset, I would say, that he didn't 
look like every actor who is an actor because he is 
good looking. I always thought about him as a fighting 
cock. Before he was thinking, he already was fighting, 
I always said. But he was a very intelligent man, 
and he was enormously emotional. And his wife [Johanna] 
was absolutely the contrary. She was from a very im- 
portant acting family in Austria. She was Gentile and 
very devoted to him, and he was just — he adored her. 
WESCHLER: She was related to Kathe Kollwitz? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, she was a niece of Kathe Kollwitz 
and also a relative of the great man Heck who founded 
the Hamburg Zoo and was then its director. In those days 
it was quite a new way to have a zoo: before, the 
animals were in houses, the animals were in cages; but 


he had the first open zoo, I think, of the whole world. 
It was in a park like that, and looked like they were in. 
That was her background. One sister [Katta Sterna] 
was a dancer with Reinhardt and was the wife of Ernst 
Matray here. There were artists and scientists in her 
family. She was very quiet and blond and tall and blue- 
eyed, and looked like a madonna, I could say; and she 
was a very good contrast to her husband always. Her 
husband used to tell all the funny expressions she said. 
For instance, once he told us, "You know, my wife said, 
'I do not only tell it; it is really so.'" ["Das sag 
ich nicht nur; das ist auch so."] But it was a kind of 
modesty: she didn't believe that what she thinks is 
interesting enough, so she said it has to be true , 

WESCHLER: And they were very devoted to each other. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Very devoted. Until to the end. 
WESCHLER: Was Kortner also able to be an actor here? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, he had too much of an accent, and he 
didn't know enough English. Later on he knew very well 
English and also wrote English; but [because of] his 
accent, he could only play Nazis. It was very funny 
that all the emigrants, who should have been the enemies 
of the Nazis, were damned, I should say, to play Nazis. 
And to play [them] very well. Preminger: I heard 


Preminger once over the radio play a Nazi and it was 
just overwhelming. His tone and his kind of bellowing 
orders and so. It was fantastic that somebody--usually 
Jews were not very militaristic — that he could adopt this 
kind of voice. 

WESCHLER: They were inspired. 

FEUCHTWANGER: You could say that, ja. It was the hate 
maybe that inspired them. But Kortner was first in 
New York, and he knew Dorothy Thompson, who was a great 
admirer of his art. They were very much together, and he 
influenced her greatly. 

WESCHLER: Now was Sinclair Lewis still with Dorothy 

FEUCHTWANGER: They were on and off, you know. I don't 
know if they were already divorced, but they were sepa- 
rated. And she was very much taken by the intellect of 
Kortner and by his temperament. So they wrote a play 
together [ Spell Your Name ] . Nothing came of it, but it 
was a very great friendship and good collaboration. 
WESCHLER: What was the play about? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ach, about what it would be: probably 
it was political and about the Nazis. I think so. It 
has been read here once (my husband even spoke the intro- 
duction for it, but I don't remember if it has been the 
whole play or not). Anyway, it never came off, except 


at this reading — or recital, I think you call it. But he had 
the greatest influence on Dorothy Thompson in a political way: 
she was for the Republicans at first, and he turned her abso- 
lutely around so she was the greatest propagandist for the 
Democrats and for Roosevelt (whom she didn't like at first 
very much) . There were other people--for instance Agnes Meyer, 
from the Washington Post ; she hated the Roosevelts also. It 
was very funny because the Washington Post was Democratic. 
(She was the wife of the founder of the Washington Post . ) And 
Dorothy Thompson was then not only an admirer of Roosevelt, 
but she made very much propaganda for him. Then she came to 
us — I don't know if I told you. When we were in New York only 
a few days, in the middle of the night, she called my husband 
and said, "I have to speak with you." He was already in bed, 
and he was very sleepy. I was on the telephone, and she said, 
"I have to speak with your husband." So I woke him up, and he 
received her, and she told him about all those political things 
and what he's thinking about it and about Roosevelt. And then 
she said, "You know, Sinclair Lewis is for Willkie; he makes 
propaganda for VJillkie." And my husband was flabbergasted that 
somebody could be--he was not against Willkie; he must 
have been a good man even--but that somebody could be for 
the Republicans, he was so Democratic. But she said also 
that she has been turned around by the influence of Kortner, 
and she thinks that Sinclair Lewis is now a Republican mostly 


to counteract her, to upset her. 
WESCHLER: To spite her. 

FEUCHTWANGER: To spite her, yes. But finally she called one 
day and said, "You know, my husband called me, and he said he 
is now also for Roosevelt." So it was really--it's a funny 
thing that [the emigres] were a few days only in America, and 
already they mixed in politics. 

WESCHLER: You also told me an interesting thing that Kortner 
told Brecht about theater in America. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, he was always against everything. He was 
against the climate and against the weather, and Brecht even, 
who was not easy to adapt himself — he was from Augsburg, and 
it was nothing but Augsburg for him, except Berlin (he loved 
Berlin; that was the only city where he could live, he always 
said). But even he was amazed that Kortner couldn't adapt him- 
self. But he forgot that Kortner was Viennese, and the Viennese 
always found that Vienna — like the Parisians in Paris--there is 
nothing but Vienna. And Kortner said he just didn't like any- 
thing here. But it didn't mean anything, I would say, because 
in Germany he was also against everything. It was a kind of, 
his kind of . . . 

WESCHLER: ...his temperament. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Not only his temperament, I think also his 
action, his . . . 
WESCHLER: ...his battling temperament. 


FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , I think so, too. I think his creativity 
also was influenced by that. His meanings and opinions, also 
in literature. So, when somebody played a role, let's say, 
very quiet, he played it very loud, or things like that, you 
know; he was a little bit like Brecht in this way. He created 
by creating against something, not for something. 
WESCHLER: Was he friends with Brecht? 

FEUCHTWANGER: They were very good friends but they were very 
different. Also Kortner was always angry with everybody, even 
with his good friends, because he was so much for solidarity. 
He thought friends have to go through thick and thin for one 
another. For instance, he liked my husband very much and he 
admired his work, but he was very angry when my husband had 
written this novel Simone , that he has no part in it, or that 
he couldn't write the film script. But that was impossible 
because Jo Swerling discovered the whole thing and brought it 
to Goldwyn, and through him it has been accepted, and it was 
the condition from Goldwyn that Jo Swerling write the script. 
So Lion couldn't do anything: my husband had no power about 
that. But Kortner didn't want to hear any logical explanation. 
He just said, "You didn't do that for me; that's all." He was 
also angry with Brecht when he didn't have a role in his movie 
which he wrote with Fritz Lang (but which he later on disavowed 
also). So it was always — but it was always in friendship, you 
know. He said it out, told it out, he was angry and loud and so. 


but afterwards it was over. 

WESCHLER: How did he and Fritz Lang get along? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't think they went — I don't know 

about it, but I don't think they could get along. Because 

also, he never used him in his movies. But there is 

also the thing that he didn't play anymore here. What 

he could play was only a German. Of course, in this movie. 

Hangmen Also Die , there were a lot of Germans. But I have 

to look--maybe Brecht writes about some things because 

he was with this movie, he worked with Lang in this movie. 

But I know also that Brecht was very much against the theater 

here, and in those days also the film was not very good: 

Brecht thought it was too materialistic. In the meantime, 

much has changed, and the funny thing is they have very 

much changed through the French influence, the French and 

Swedish influence. Bergman and the French Nouveau Wave , 

New Wave, ja. Once Kortner said, "Only the Negroes are 

allowed to make good theater; the whites have to save 

face." Very funny things he always said. Once he was 

at the barbershop and the shoeshine boy said, "I don't like 

communism; I prefer the Russian system." But that's proof 

of the propaganda against communism.... 

WESCHLER: It had been so effective. 


WESCHLER: Okay. Well, I think that pretty much covers 


Kortner for the time being. [pause in tape] 

Now I'd like to go back and once again begin to get some 
kind of perspective on the Red Scare that took place through- 
out the community, throughout the country, in the late forties, 
FEUCHTWANGER : But this was much earlier. 

WESCHLER: Well, it started even earlier. That's what I'd 
like to get to. A good place to start here would be some- 
thing you told me off tape, which was a rather ironic 
moment in history. . . . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but you have to know first that they 
didn't [let] any Communist into the country. Everybody 
had to declare, before he took his first papers, that he 
is not a Communist and never was a Communist. And those 
who were--for instance, [Alfred] Kantorowicz : he wanted 
to come here also. He was with my husband in the con- 
centration camp. And when he wanted to come here--he 
had the visa and everything — they didn't let him in. 
They told him he cannot come in. He was only allowed a 
visitor visa for a very short time, and then he has to go 
away again. What he applied for was not even to stay here; 
he applied to go through America to Mexico because in 
Mexico everybody was allowed to enter, even those who 
were — I think Kantorowicz was never in the party, but he 
considered himself a Communist in those days. He wanted to 
go to Mexico, and then finally they allowed him to come here. 


only for transit, for the transit to Mexico. And then 
a very funny thing happened: Pearl Harbor happened and he 
wasn't allowed anymore to go out of America. 
WESCHLER: Why is that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. He was here, allowed only for transit 
to Mexico, and then nobody was allowed to leave. He was 
a kind of prisoner here, he was not allowed.... So he 
was finally in America, what he wanted in the first place, 
[laughter] And not only that: he was allowed to make 
propaganda; he made a lot of propaganda over the underground 
radio in Germany. He worked a lot in New York--I don't know 
if it was also in Washington, but I know in New York. 
WESCHLER: What was his eventual fate? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He was here during the war but never here 
in Los Angeles; I don't remember that he was here. And 
he then went back to East Germany, was for a while there, and 
was director of the Heinrich Mann Archive. He did a great 
job with that and also wrote a lot. He wrote a very in- 
teresting afterword about The Devil in France . 
WESCHLER: A postscript. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. And also he even takes the side of 
Lion against himself because Lion had a bad conscience 
about this suicide of Hasenclever and thought he could have 
maybe prevented it. Kantorowicz says that he could not 
have prevented it, because he, Kantorowicz, spoke almost the 


whole night with Hasenclever, to dissuade him, to tell him 
to wait, that maybe something will happen. So he even 
defends Feuchtwanger against himself. And that's why 
I think it's interesting. 

And then he left East Germany, with great fanfare, 
which was very unclever, and went to West Germany, where 
he is professor. He married again; he had divorced his 
wife, and I heard that now he had a very beautiful woman. 
And we corresponded some. But my husband and he were 
out of touch later because my husband didn't approve 
of the way he left East Germany. He never interfered 
in other people's opinions, but Kantorowicz made so big 
a clash out of it. ... It was very unwise; even the West 
Germans didn't like it in the beginning. But later on--he 
is now a very respected professor and writer there. 
WESCHLER: When he left the United States to go to East 
Germany, was he forced out of the United States, or did 
he choose to do it? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, the funny thing was he never had dif- 
ficulties as a communist. He had no difficulties in 
France, where he should have been in this terrible con- 
centration camp in Vernet — he belonged there with the 
others — but he was instead at the other one where my 
husband was. He could escape France — nobody knew of his 
communism — so it was also easier. And in the place where 


he was, the people all protected him where he lived in 
the neighborhood of Sanary. He was protected by every- 
body there and was not denounced. 
WESCHLER: Why do you think that was? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He was very popular. People liked him and 
liked his wife. He lived with the people, and the way 
he worked, he was very popular. He writes also in his 
own books about that. 

WESCHLER: And even here in America.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: And here in America he was immediately 
working for the propaganda against Germany. In East Germany 
he was very well regarded as the man who made the Heinrich 
Mann Archive and also wrote about him. But there was something 
--he was disappointed in something, and he left. But what he 
said was that he was in danger of his life and things like 
that. And even in West Germany people didn't believe it, 
because he was the only one who came and said that. The others 
only just came over and didn't make much fuss about it. But 
later on--he's now very much respected also in the Emigration 
literature, and he's always mentioned for what he's doing. 
He wrote beautifully about my husband also, and as a professor, 
he has a very good renommee there. He was also too emotional, 
you could say. 

WESCHLER: How was he too emotional? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I mean everything was emotional what he did. 


When he left East Berlin or East Germany, he could have 

done it without any fanfare. 

WESCHLER: Okay, I'd like to get back now to 19 41 and the 

paradoxes that arose because the United States and Russia 

were temporarily allies during World War II. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but not temporarily — immediately, from 

one day to the other, you could say. 

WESCHLER: Could you tell me about something that I 

think is wonderfully ironic in view of later history, which 

was a party at Dalton Trumbo ' s house? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, we didn't know anything about — we 

were too short a time here. It was after Pearl Harbor; 

it was not long, not even a year, I think a year it was, 

[since we had arrived]. But we didn't know anything 

about the movie people and their political intentions or 

opinions. So we were invited at Dalton Trumbo ' s house, 

as Lion was the representative of the German writers for 

the Russian War Relief. So we came there. An enormous 

amount of people were there; it was really thronged. 

It was a rather big villa, and his wife told us that he 

had to go to New York, so he isn't there. That was all — 

I didn't even know how he looked. And then there was 

a lot of new speakers--everybody was new to me — and the 

main speaker was Norman Chandler from the Los Angeles 

Times, who spoke glowingly about our new allies. 


WESCHLER: Russia. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, Russia, that they need to be helped, 
and that of course there has been founded the American- 
Russian War Relief. And then spoke what was called a 
White Russian professor from UCLA who had escaped the 
Communists after the revolution. He spoke the same and 
was very proud of his fatherland, of Russia, that they 
are now on our side. Then there was [James] Hilton, 
who wrote Lost Horizon , and a lot of people who I only 
knew by name but I never saw before. And also Leslie 
Rivers, who was kind of the leader of the Democratic 
party here. And with Leslie Rivers we met also the great 
president of UC [University of California] , [Robert] 
Sproul, who was also Democrat. 

WESCHLER: Getting back to this party, it's especially 
interesting that Norman Chandler, who later on would be 
such an anti-Communist, was there. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, I think the Americans were really afraid 
of the Communists — not of Russia so much, but of the 
Communists here probably. Not of the Communists who were 
here, but of the possibility, the probability or so, 
that Communists could become a power here. 
WESCHLER: But at that time they had put aside that fear 
and were supporting Russia. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but I think it wasn't so much Russia; 


it was just the fear of communism. Because I remember 
when my husband was the first time in America, in '32, 
he was invited in Chicago at a great meat-packer's; they 
had a big house, and he was invited there and had a whole 
apartment there in their house with his own servants and 
so. And in the evening, when there was a big dinner 
and gathering, they were all very pessimistic. It was 
during the Hoover government still, the Depression. 
And they said that it cannot go on like that, capitalism 
is on the way out, and they all thought there must be 
a kind of socialism here. They didn't call it communism, 
but they all looked forward to a kind of socialism here. 
I think it has been prevented by Roosevelt because the 
New Deal of Roosevelt made so much progress that they 
lost their fear of communism. But after Russia was so 
strong during the war, and showed what they didn't believe- 
everybody had said, I remember one senator said, "The 
Russians are not dangerous; they don't have any know- 
how," but then they showed much know-how. Later on, 
in the fifties, everything turned around when they had 
the first Sputnik. I remember also that even at the 
universities, the whole teaching changed. Before it was 
a little lax in everything, and all of a sudden they found 
that people had to learn more, study more, and have to 
invent also kinds of Sputniks. 


WESCHLER: Okay, let's get back to this thing. You had 
mentioned that you had also met someone at [Herbert] 
Biberman's house. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, we knew Biberman also from those — we 
didn't even know that he was a Communist, but later on 
he was one of the Ten. 
WESCHLER: The Hollywood Ten. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Hollywood Ten. We all knew they were anti- 
fascist and anti-Hitler, and that was enough for us to 
be for them; we never asked anybody or about anybody what 
was his political opinion. And then once we were invited 
at Biberman's house; he was living in the hills, and 
we didn't find the way. We were at a gasoline station, 
and he came to pick us up. And we left our car there 
because it was night and a very complicated hill-going. And 
then we met there, for the first time, the new Russian 
consul general. I remember he was not looking like a 
diplomat usually looks; he looked more like his origin 
would have been a peasant. He was good-looking, strong- 
looking, with blue eyes and blond, but he was not much of 
a conversationalist. When somebody asked him something, 
then he always said, "Frankly speaking," and then he spoke 
very unfrankly. [laughter] But he was a very nice person; 
everybody liked him. He was very sympathetic, but you 
couldn't get anything out of him. 


WESCHLER: Did you know Biberman fairly well? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, we met him several times in all those 
meetings, you know. They were, for instance, mostly for 
the Spaniards then. There was a great movement for the 
Spanish people, the Spanish Loyalists who had to flee to 
France first — and some even had to be brought over here. 
We knew all that they lived in a terrible way; it was 
very unhuman how they have been treated in France. They 
let them come in, and then — in the beginning they had some 
money because also some rich people came over, but when 
this money was out, they were all in a kind of concentration 
camps with almost no food. Even I had to speak, and I 
didn't know.... It was the first time in my life that I 
spoke publicly, and I had to say something in English, and I 
was very, very — I had what they called butterflies in my 
stomach. [laughter] But when I spoke, people were very 
touched because I said I had seen those Spaniards in the 
concentration camps, how they were working on the roofs and 
making all kinds of repairs, and how when a wife was with 
child and gave birth to a child, we all had no coffee — 
or what they called coffee — because the hot water was only 
used for the child and there was not enough water there. 
So, because I spoke about my own experience, it touched 
them more than when somebody speaks more... 
WESCHLER: ...abstractly. That was here in Los Angeles? 


FEUCHTWANGER: It was here in Los Angeles; I think it 
was at the Ambassador Hotel. So we met those people mostly 
for this kind of thing. 
WESCHLER: Functions of that type. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , ja; ja, ja. And there we met also 
Gail Sondergaard, who was.... There was something else 
founded; Will Durant founded it here: it was called 
something like Interrelation [the Democratic Association] . 
WESCHLER: We can look it up. 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I have the speech. You will get the speech; 
I have it copied now. My husband had to speak there. It 
was the foundation for something like the United Nations 
inside America. My husband had to speak there. And 
there we met also Gale Sondergaard, who spoke; she was a 
very beautiful woman, and she got an Oscar for the play 
The Letter , I think it was, by Somerset Maugham. William 
Wyler was my escort, and he got also an Oscar for this 
play, for this film. But we met them very seldom privately. 
They came once to our house, we were once at their house, 
and we met always at those occasions. 

WESCHLER: I'm trying to get a sense of what the anti- 
Communist feeling was like during the war — that is, when 
Russia was our ally. Were there already inquiries being made 
by the federal government about people in the emigre 
community during that time, during the war? 


FEUCHTWANGER: I'm sure they did, but we didn't know. 

Some gentlemen came always and asked us about others. They 

asked, for instance, "Do you know Thomas Mann? Is he 

a Communist?" 

WESCHLER: This was during the war? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I think so. But they said they were 

the Secret Service and that they have to inquire about 

every alien, because the Japanese were considered aliens, 

and the Germans, and we could also be one of the what they 

called the Fifth Column. In fact, there were in France 

some people who even spoke Yiddish and Hebrew, and they 

were Nazis. 

WESCHLER: Were they looking for Nazis among the Germans, 

or were they looking for Communists? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, they pretended they have to look. 

They didn't say they were looking for Nazis; they only 

said, "We are the Secret Service, and we have to inquire 

about everybody who is an alien here, who is not an American." 

WESCHLER: Well, were they looking for Communists as well 

as Nazis when they were looking around the aliens? 

FEUCHTWANGER: They never asked us if we were Nazis, of 

course. [laughter] I never heard this question. But 

the idea which they pretended was that every alien had to 

be inquired about, [pause in tape] They inquired only 

if we knew any Communists. They didn't ask us if we are 


Communists, for instance. That was only later, when my 
husband was applying for his citizenship. That was another 
kind of inquiry. But [at that time] they came and just 
asked if they can speak with my husband. My husband was 
very flattered. He thought always they wanted his help 
for propaganda against the Nazis. Which they also did: 
he had a lot of radio speeches to make. (I have all those 
speeches; you [can see] them also.) But he was interested 
in those things because he thought they need his help. 
We all were ready to help them whatever we could tell them 
about the Nazis. So first of all he thought that it 
was the same as in France when they didn't allow him 
to get an exit visa--"Oh, they probably need me for propa- 
ganda." It was the same here: he thought they need him 
for propaganda; he didn't think they were so stupid here 
as those in France. 

WESCHLER: So what did they ask him? 

FEUCHTWANGER: They asked, for instance, if we know Thomas 
Mann. My husband said, "Of course." Then [the man] said, 
"Is he a Communist?" And my husband said no. "Is his 
son a Communist?" (That was Klaus Mann, who was still 
alive then.) And my husband said, "No, not that I know; 
and I know that Klaus is an anti-Communist even." And 
then they asked about Dieterle, whether he's a Communist. 
My husband said, "I don't know. I never spoke with him 


about it. I know only that he is helping the emigrants." 
And the man said, "And you say Klaus Mann is not a Communist. 
But then why is he then always in the company of Dieterle?" 
But Wilhelm Dieterle had never a hearing later because he was 
too famous; he was the best-paid movie director and also very 
popular as a movie director. He made those great biographical 
movies about [Paul] Ehrlich [ Dr. Ehrlich' s Magic Bullet ] and 
Madame Curie [ Madame Curie ] and those things. So nobody dared 
to touch him. But everybody asked those funny questions. My 
husband couldn't understand that they say, "How can you say 
Klaus Mann is not a Communist when he is a friend of Dieterle?" 
My husband said, "I'm also a friend of Dieterle." [laughter] 
It was so funny a thing; and they all wrote it down, you know, 
very conscientiously, what everybody said. And they went to 
all our friends--we heard about it years afterwards [even 
though] everybody was obliged not to speak about it — they were 
everywhere, asking about my husband and about each other. It 
sounded very--it sounds very childish when you speak now 
about it. 

WESCHLER: What did it seem like at the time? This was, of 
course, before it got dangerous with the hearing. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , we just thought it is kind of a defense 
measure like they did with the Japanese. We didn't dare 
even think about buying a house here because we were also 
thinking [that we might be] evacuated like the Japanese, 


because this was a kind of war region. First there was 
brownout, and then I think it was even a blackout here. 
But we could understand and we were very much [for] that, 
that the Japanese were evacuated, because we knew about 
some Japanese who were really spies. One of the butlers of 
Homolka, it turned out — we always were very much in awe 
of this butler (he was always so sinister and so serious, 
and he was a very good worker) , and later on Homolka 
told us that he was a Japanese officer and has been 
arrested. So we thought, you know, of course, in war 
you cannot ask everybody, touch everybody with leather 
gloves; you have to do something. We thought even it 
has not been done enough here. So we were very much.... 
But later on I heard that instead of confiscating what 
the Japanese owned, you know, their business and so, to 
give it back after the war, they forced the Japanese to 
sell it for nothing to their neighbors. So the Japanese 
were.... Everything didn't seem very just what they did 
with the Japanese. 

WESCHLER: Getting back to the Communist thing again, as 
long as Russia was still an ally, this question about Com- 
munists at least had that factor, that Russia was still 
an ally, so it was alleviated a bit. At what point did that 
kind of . . . ? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I think right after the ending of the war. 


You could feel it already when Russia wanted to declare 
war to the Japanese. That was when everybody already 
thought that the Japanese were at the end of their line. 
And here it was not well accepted that [Russia] would now 
declare war, because they wanted to share the spoils when 
there is peace. And so it also was explained that they 
dropped the atom bomb to warn the Russians, on one side, 
and on the other side, they wanted to show them that they 

didn't need them anymore. That was explanation which 
we heard. 

WESCHLER: So already at that point there was a sense that 
the Cold War was beginning? 

FEUCHTWANGER: It was already beginning because they didn't 
need the Russians anymore, because it was obvious that 
the Japanese couldn't win. 

WESCHLER: After the war was over, I take it, there was 
going to be a growing sense of tension about the anti- 
Communist investigations and so forth. We've seen now that 
it was, in a way, just a continuum from what was going 
on during the war, the questionings that were taking 
place then, and that it just became more pronounced. 
FEUCHTWANGER: It was not during the war; it was toward 
the end of the war. And also, you know, first of all 
there was no fear, as long as Roosevelt was there. And 
then when Triaman came, he always used to talk about "the 


red herring" and made fun out of this kind of Communist 
fear — do you remember that? But later on he was quiet 
about it and didn't interfere anymore. But at first he 
was very much attacked about his intentions or his state 
of mind. 

WESCHLER: I would like to take a couple of the people 
who were hardest hit during the Red Scare, and talk 
about them in more detail right now. In particular, I'd 
like to talk about Eisler and Brecht. So I think I'll 
turn over this tape, and we'll start taling about Eisler on 
the next tape. 


SEPTEMBER 12, 1975 

WESCHLER: We're just going to talk a little bit about 
[Hanns] Eisler for starters, and what happened to him 
during the Red Scare. Let's begin with a context. You 
knew Eisler very well here. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, we liked him also very much. 
WESCHLER: You told me that he was always living in the 
houses that you lived in after you left them. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, when we left Amalfi Drive, because the 
owners wanted to go back for a while, then the owners wanted to 
rent it again because they built a new house in Malibu (the 
Holiday House, it was called, with a restaurant) . And then 
Eisler lived in this house, but not for a long time, because 
then it has been sold to the Goes. And when we lived for a 
while afterwards in South Amalfi Drive until we found this 
house here, as soon as we had this house, then Eisler moved 
into our house. And there we met also Schoenberg. Eisler 
arranged a party so we would meet Schoenberg for the first time. 
WESCHLER: Eisler was in awe of Schoenberg. 

FEUCHTWANGER: He was very much in awe. He was his student 
and his pupil, and he admired him greatly. Eisler considered 
him a very gifted composer, but he didn't like at all his 
political opinions. 


WESCHLER: What were Schoenberg's political opinions? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, he was very conservative — not like 

his music. [laughter] And also there was another thing: 

when Eisler has been arrested, my husband and also 

Thomas Mann tried their best to help him in any way with 

influential people. Thomas Mann did very much for him, 

and my husband went to Schoenberg to ask him if he could 

do something. But Schoenberg said, "I don't want to have 

anything to do with any Communist, even if he is my student." 

And then Lion went to Stravinsky, who was not a friend of 

the Russians--he was himself an emigre of the Russian 

Revolution — but Stravinsky immediately conceded that he 

would do all he can to help Eisler. 

WESCHLER: Okay, but getting back to the relationship 

between Schoenberg and Eisler, did Eisler joke about how 

much he was in awe of Schoenberg? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he joked about it. He told Brecht 

that although he always calls Schoenberg "Meister," he 

found it comical that he, as a grown-up person, was so much 

in awe of him. But he couldn't help it. 

WESCHLER: You told me a story--! 'm not sure we got it 

on tape--about an operation for one of the children of 


FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, once one of the children needed an 

operation, and since Schoenberg was so badly paid at 


UCLA, he didn't have the money. Eisler heard about it, 
and he went to Schoenberg and said, "Master, I heard that 
your child needs an operation. You know, I have some 
money because I work with Chaplin and for the movies. 
I would gladly lend you the money; you don't have to 
worry about paying it back immediately because I can 
wait, and also you could give me some lessons instead," 
Then Schoenberg said, "If you haven't understood it by 
now, you never will understand it." 

WESCHLER: Did he borrow the money anyway, do you know? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I think SO. I hope so. [laughter] 
WESCHLER: What about Lou Eisler, Eisler 's wife? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Lou Eisler was a little complicated. I 
liked her very much; some people didn't like her so much. 
She was a kind of woman's lib already. I called her 
always "the Suffragette." And she was a great friend of 
Oona Chaplin; they went along very well. The funny thing 
was that for Christmas Oona wanted a convertible. She 
said, "I don't think that Charlie will buy me one. I 
don't know; he doesn't want me to drive a convertible." 
And then "the Suffragette" said, "you have to insist if you 
want something. You know he has the means to buy it for 
you." And I was present, and I had the feeling to know 
why Chaplin didn't want the convertible. I thought he is 
so much older than she is, and maybe he was afraid to get 



rheumatism in an open car because here in the evening 
it's always so damp and cold. He never would have admit- 
ted that, so he just didn't want a convertible. But I 
didn't tell that, of course. I only said, "But I think 
that Chaplin should know what he wants, and I wouldn't 
insist if I were you. I at least wouldn't do that with 
my husband." And then--it was funny--Oona thought a moment 
about it, and then she said, "You know, I want to tell 
you something. You only should marry a man who you love 
really." It had not really any... 
WESCHLER: ...context — it was out of context. 
FEUCHTWANGER: ...context, yes, but her mind wandered into 
this context. 

WESCHLER: She really did love Chaplin? 
FEUCHTWANGER: She really did love him, ja. 
WESCHLER: Getting back to Lou Eisler, you said she was 
complicated. What else about her? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that was the most complicated thing, 
that she found always that women have not enough to say 
and so. But also, on the other hand, I think she had a 
very good character: she wasn't very happy with Eisler* 
Eisler drank too much. Probably he was also unhappy, and 
that was the reason why he drank. And she was sometimes 
embarrassed. She told me once that she would have sepa- 
rated or divorced him a long time ago, but she thinks as 


long as they are emigrants and not in a very good position, 

she wouldn't leave him. She would leave him as soon as 

he's in a better position. And also they were then divorced 

in Germany, when Eisler made really a great career in 


WESCHLER: Okay, we'll get to that in a second. One of 

Eisler 's other friends that you've mentioned off tape 

was Norman Lloyd. Were they next-door neighbors? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, they were absolutely next-door 

neighbors. You could see and hear everything what they 

did there. 

WESCHLER: In Malibu? 

FEUCHTWANGER: In Malibu. That was only little wooden 

houses, you know. It was not the villas of Malibu; 

they were directly on the ocean, like huts almost, but 

very comfortable and beautiful because you had your own 

beach there. Just before the house was the sand already. 

And what would you ask more? Also, when they had the 

accident at Christmas, we heard from Norman Lloyd about 


WESCHLER: What was the story on that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: At Christmas we were invited — always, it 

was a tradition from Germany already — to Christmas at 

Brecht's house. Helli had the most wonderful cooking; 

she was a great Viennese cook, and there had always to be a 


goose there. First a carp, which was called mirror carp, a 
very big carp with no scales. It was a very fat carp--it has 
to be; it was also a German tradition--and a big goose. Did I 
tell you about the time in Germany — or should I tell that another 
time? — when we were at Brecht's house for Christmas? We came 
early, and there was also a French writer expected and also Kurt 
Weill. Brecht was sewing a little black banner for his car. 
Everything had to be black: in his study, all the furniture were 
black; the wallpaper, everything was black. So he wanted a 
little black flag on his car, and he was sewing it himself. He 
had a new car, of course, a new secondhand car. All of a sudden 
I heard a loud shout, and he said, "That I like, to pick your 
Vater Klassiker in the behind!" It was his little boy who got a 
needle and picked his father in.... It was a very classic 
situation. [laughter] He called himself "the classical father." 
WESCHLER: Okay, getting back to this dinner.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , and this dinner we were already there, 
and everybody was there, and only the Eislers (who were 
invited) didn't come. And Brecht, who was so proud about 
his driving a car, how good he drove a car, he said, "Oh, 
I think Lou Eisler is just a bad driver, and they are 
late because she doesn't drive very well." And then he 
got a call from Norman Lloyd that they had an auto accident 
and are in the hospital. I went very early the next 
morning to [Lloyd's] house to inquire; I knocked on the 


door of Norman Lloyd, and he came out. (I remember how 
his little child was there going around the Christmas 
tree, Norman Lloyd's girl. She was not allowed to in the 
evening — she was too small. She was in her nightshirt 
at the Christmas tree.) And he told me where the Eislers 
were, that they were in the hospital and that it was not 
very serious. But when I came there, Eisler was abso- 
lutely patient, a great patient — he was so quiet and didn't 
ask for anything. But she had another room and was very 
unsatisfied with everything what happened at this place. 
It was a great difference between the two. 
WESCHLER: It had not been a serious accident, though? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, it was not very serious. She wasn't 
wounded seriously, less seriously than he was, but she 
was the one who complained more. But I liked her very 
much; I could say that she had very good sides, too. It 
was just that she was a little spoiled, or she wanted 
to be spoiled. 

WESCHLER: Okay, let's begin to talk now more seriously about 
the Communist situation with Eisler. Before Eisler was 
in trouble, Gerhardt Eisler, his brother, was in trouble. 
Did you ever meet Gerhardt Eisler? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He came once. We had never met him. But 
once Hanns Eisler asked my husband if he wouldn't read 
to him, or rather my husband wanted to ask him about certain 


things about the French Revolution and read to him from 
this book, I^Tis Folly to be Wise [ Narrenweisheit , oder 
Tod und Verklarung des Jean - Jacques Rousseau ] . 
WESCHLER: The book about Rousseau? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. He made research there, and he wanted 
to speak with him about it because Eisler was really a 
very clever and very interesting person and you could 
speak with him about everything. 
WESCHLER: Hanns Eisler? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Hanns Eisler. Not only about music — the 
least about music, because we didn't know very much about 
the modern music. So he came, but he said, "Can I 
bring my brother with me?" We didn't even know if he 
had any brothers or what was his brother. We heard about 
Gerhardt Eisler, but we didn't think that it's just this 
Gerhardt Eisler that he would bring. And when he brought 
him, this brother was very quiet, didn't say a word, and 
was sitting in a corner of the sofa, didn't mention any- 
thing about the whole thing what my husband read. So, 
after they left. Lion said, "It seems like Eisler didn't 
like what I read." 
WESCHLER: Gerhardt Eisler? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Gerhardt Eisler. But we didn't know him 
because he didn't speak a word, and afterwards I heard 
that Gerhardt Eisler was one of the most witty persons 


who ever lived, and very erudite also, and mostly that 

he was so amusing. But we didn't find that when he was 

here. Afterwards we got a letter, after a long time, 

when the book was already published in Germany. Lou 

Eisler wrote us a letter and said that Gerhardt Eisler-- 

who became then minister of propaganda and was professor 

at the University [of Leipzig] — that he told her that 

this is his favorite book of Feuchtwanger , because, he 

said, "What he wrote is about us. I feel that we have the 

same life or the same thoughts and experiences." 

WESCHLER: As in the Rousseau book. How do you interpret 

that? In what sense do you think he was talking? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know, but I think it was because 

my husband writes about the people in prison or so, you know, 

about what happened in prison with the people. 

WESCHLER: So you think that Gerhardt Eisler was talking 

of his own experiences when he was back in East Germany? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he was probably thinking about the 

different grades of communism, you know. The literary 

people had another kind of communism in East Germany 

than the others, I think, and maybe that was the reason. 

I don't know, that's just my opinion. 

WESCHLER: Okay, well, Gerhardt Eisler was, of course, in 

the headlines all the time. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but Gerhardt Eisler — really, the only 


word you can say about him is that he was fresh, 
[laughter] It was absolutely daring, what he did. He 
just went around in this country and made speeches, 
communistic speeches, just thinking that there is a law 
of the land under the Constitution of free speech. 
Of course, it couldn't last long, but it lasted as long 
as — and he was very courageous; he knew also it couldn't 
last long. But he did it because he was really a 

WESCHLER: A dedicated Marxist. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Dedicated Communist. He did that as long 
as he could; he had to do that. 

WESCHLER: What did Hanns think of that? Did he talk 
about that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, he admired him for his courage. He was 
not of his opinion; he was very left, but he was not a 
dedicated Communist, and also not in the party himself. 
But he admired his brother very much. 

WESCHLER: I take it from reading history that it was 
partly through his being the brother of Gerhardt Eisler 
that Hanns himself came into trouble. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Absolutely, but also as a friend of 
Brecht, of course. 
WESCHLER: So what happened? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Well, you know that Gerhardt Eisler wanted 


to go on the [S.S.] Batory ; that was a Polish ship. He 
shipped himself when he saw that now he cannot do it any- 
more, he has to go. He was not a martyr; he didn't want 
to be a martyr. So he just left and went on the Batory ; 
and when he arrived in England, he has been taken from 
the ship and arrested. He threw — he battled what he could.... 
WESCHLER: He fought the police? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He fought the police and shouted and said they 
kidnapped him and so, and finally they had to let him loose. 
And in England they did it on account of the American govern- 
ment or the CIA or whatever (we didn't know anything about 
those institutions; we only knew that they did it because 
the American government asked them to do it) . But finally 
they had no reason to hold him, and they let him free. 
WESCHLER: Meanwhile Hanns Eisler was summoned before the 
Un-American Activities Committee. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I know only that when he came back, we 
asked him how it was; and he said, "Yes, they asked me if 
I am a Communist, and then I said, 'It's not very clear to 
me what you mean. What is communism?'" It seems that he just 
swam around, you know, as well as possible to get rid of 
the whole thing. And then he came back here. 
WESCHLER: Do you have the sense that he knew he was going 
to be kicked out at that point? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, nobody knew anything. 


WESCHLER: I mean even after he had been summoned? 
FEUCHTWANGER: There were no laws. There was nothing 
where you could think about anything: nobody would have 
thought that somebody could be expelled from America; we 
wouldn't have thought about that. This country, the free 
country, you know, the country of the brave, or what is 
it called? [laughter] Nobody could have thought that this 
could happen, that anybody could be expelled. You knew 
that not everybody could come in, but as soon as somebody 
was in here, we couldn't imagine that somebody could be 

WESCHLER: Would Eisler have stayed here if he hadn't 
have been kicked out, do you think? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think everybody would have stayed here in 
a way because they had here work. You know, Eisler was 
working for the movies, and my husband had this house and 
the library which he assembled, so everybody.... It was 
a long time already that we were here, and so it was 
also for Eisler. I think he would have worked here because 
there was no work in Germany in those days. Germany was 
a chaos. Everybody wanted to go back, to be there in 
Germany, to go back, but not everybody thought he — nobody 
could stay: if somebody would make a living, he has to 
go back to America for at least half the time. What my hus- 
band thought: at least half the time here and half the time 


in Germany. 

WESCHLER: The chronology of all of this is a little bit com- 
plicated, but apparently sometime during this period, 
Mrs. Gerhardt Eisler was here in Los Angeles in hiding. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, she was not hiding; she just didn't 
know where to go; she had no money and her husband had had 
to leave so fast (he was already in New York and she was here) 
So she was living in the house of Hanns Eisler. And I 
knew, of course, that her husband had to flee and was even 
in danger to be brought back here as a fugitive, so I thought 
that she would need money. And that probably was also 
the case. But I didn't dare to endanger Lion and go 
myself. (I was afraid I could be arrested also.) So I 
sent Hilde (who was already an American citizen) with 
some money and to ask her if she needs any help. And 
Lou later told me that she was very glad, that she had only 
a little thin summer dress and that was all. So she could 
buy herself a dress, which she needed very much. I don't 
know more about that. 

WESCHLER: Okay. Is it true that before Hanns and Lou 
Eisler left, they hid in Clifford Odets's house? 
FEUCHTWANGER: They were there before, ja; then they have 
been arrested. 

WESCHLER: Can you talk a little bit about that? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I only know that Odets was a great friend of 


his. Odets wrote a movie. None but the Lonely Heart , 
and Eisler composed the music for it. It was a great 
success, this movie. And then, when Eisler was in danger 
to be arrested — there must have been some rumors, I don't 
know what--anyway , they lived with Odets together, downtown. 
But then he has been arrested there, it seems. That's 
what I heard when I was going to the market in my car. 
WESCHLER: What happened there? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Then nothing happened. They have been 

WESCHLER: And you were driving.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: I was driving to the market, and I heard 
over the radio in my car that Hanns Eisler and his wife 
have been arrested. I stopped on the curb and I cried. 
That was all. 

WESCHLER: There is a footnote to this business about 
Clifford Odets allowing them to live at his house during 
that period. What happened to Odets afterwards? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Odets was also in danger, probably on 
account of his friendship with Eisler; and also, most of the 
writers in the thirties were very much interested in com- 
munism in those days. It was the trend of all the young 
writers. Nobody was a Communist, but they all were some- 
times at a meeting just to hear what happened. And so he 
was afraid to come before the Un-American Committee; that 


would have meant that he would have been blacklisted. 
Even if he wouldn't go to jail — because he had always 
[the right] to take the Fifth Amendment — he would have 
been told that he has committed perjury because he said 
that he is not a Communist. And there was always ... this 
Elizabeth Bentley, this woman, who was--they called it a 
bag woman, I think, those kind of people. She had al- 
ways a kind of document to prove that somebody was a 
Communist, for instance, a membership card--they were all 
f alsif icated. But she was the main person there, the most 
important person for the Un-American Committee, and what 
she said was the law of the land. So everybody was in 
danger to get five years in jail for perjury. And Odets 
was a married man with four children. And then he--what 
they said--had to name some names who were probably Com- 
munist or so. And he was ostracized afterwards, by those 
people. . . . 

WESCHLER: Did he name some names? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He named names, but he said only those who 
were already known, no new names. So he didn't denounce 
new persons but only those who were already in jeopardy. 
But he was absolutely ostracized afterwards, even by those 
people who were not very left. We were invited at Dieterle's 
house, and they told us that Odets was also invited, and we 
were looking forward because we had much understanding for 


him in his situation, mostly after we heard that he only 
named those who were already known. But when we came to 
dinner and we asked for Odets, Dieterle said, "Yes, we 
were expecting him, but he didn't show up." And afterwards 
we heard that he was embarrassed to meet my husband, I 
only heard that nobody wanted much friendship with him. 
And once I was at the Ivar Theatre for a premiere, and 
from far I saw Odets, waiting for the tickets. He saw me 
and looked at me, and I smiled, and then he came to me and 
kissed my hand and had tears in his eyes. Then he left 
again. And not long afterwards he died, I think really of 
a broken heart. He was still a young man. 

WESCHLER: This play at the Ivar Theatre was Arthur Miller's 
After the Fall ? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think it was this. I was twice there for 
a premiere, but I think it was After the Fall . 
WESCHLER: Which also is about that whole situation. 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, After the Fall is about Marilyn Monroe. 
WESCHLER: But it also has things in it about talking to 
the Un-American Activities Committee. 
FEUCHTWANGER: It has? Ja? I don't remember. 
WESCHLER: Anyway, coming back to Hanns Eisler: Eisler 
had been arrested, Lou and Hanns had been deported, and 
their house was still in Malibu. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, the house was still in Malibu, and 


everything was there. It was so fast that they were not 
allowed to pack or take anything with them. So I took 
everything into my house. I had a man here who was a 
kind of help for me; he and his wife came once a week to 
clean, and also he helped me in the garden. He was from 
the fire department, so he was not in much danger when 
he went there. So I went with him, in his car, and we 
took everything out what we could. I sent everything 
what Lou then wrote us to send her. It was rather 
expensive, all those things — all her clothes, and all their 
books and so, and also lots of his material and records. 
Then there was one sofa there, a very beautiful old 
thing, made of mahogany, but very uncomfortable to sit 
on; it was narrow and hard. And I remember when we were 
always so many people at Hanns Eisler's house, I was obliged 
to sit on it--there was no other room sometimes--and I was 
suffering. [laughter] You remember when we brought once 
Eva van Hoboken there--did I tell you that? 
WESCHLER: Right, right, you told us. 

FEUCHTWANGER: That was one of the parties. And then this 
sofa was still standing there. First Kortner had bought 
it originally, because he fell in love with this old wood. 
But finally it didn't fit into his whole style. He and 
his wife had great taste, and they had beautiful old early 
American furniture which all fitted together, but this just 


didn't fit in the room (it was also too long). So he 

had it outside on his terrace, and he asked me if I didn't 

want it for my house. I said it doesn't fit in my house 

either; also I couldn't tell anybody to sit on it, and what 

do I do with furniture, a nonsitting furniture? [laughter] 

So I left it there, and he gave it to Hanns Eisler, and 

Hanns Eisler was very glad to have it. But then I took it 

here because it was a pity to leave it there, so it's in the 

archive. Still standing there. 

WESCHLER: So people in the archive have nothing good to 

sit on? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, there is no--there are only books on it, 

you know, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: I see. Where did Eisler go, to Switzerland? 

Or do you have any idea? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't remember. I think he went directly 

to East Germany. 

WESCHLER: And was he happy there? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Very happy, yes. He was immediately very 

well received. He had lots of friends there. He composed 

for Brecht, and also he was asked to compose the national 

anthem. And even though he was a Schoenberg disciple, he could 

also compose very folksy things. You couldn't say that he 

was betraying his art, but he had this gift to make this modern 

music which is very much now in awe in Europe — he is very 


much admired and much played — and also those folk songs. 

And this anthem, I really want to hear it once; I have 

to try and get a record of it. Anyway, a professor, a 

young professor from the Sorbonne [Albert Betz] was here 

because he is writing a biography, a very great biography 

about Hanns Eisler. He came here to interview people, 

and of course he came to me to interview. And he told 

me that this national anthem has been played also at the 

Olympic festivals, and since East Germany had very good 

gymnasts and sport people — they won seventeen gold medals 

on this Olympic festival--every time a champion got the 

medal, everybody had to stand up because the national 

anthem composed by Hanns Eisler, who has been deported 

from America, has to be played. 

WESCHLER: And Americans had to be standing. 

FEUCHTWANGER: They had to be standing up. [laughter] 

It's a very amusing thing. And this man, this professor 

from the Sorbonne--it was such a great pleasure for him 

to tell me that. 

WESCHLER: Well, that's when you'll be able to hear Hanns 

Eisler' s national anthem, during the next Olympics in 


FEUCHTWANGER: It will be here? 

WESCHLER: Well, you can watch on TV; you can listen to 




WESCHLER: I heard reports that Eisler was unhappy in 

Germany and drank an awful lot. 

FEUCHTWANGER: He drank, but he did already here. If 

you read the Work Journal of Brecht, he always says that 

Eisler drank so much and sometimes without eating anything 

from beginning in the morning, so that it went of course 

immediately to his head. Once, I think it was in Laughton ' s 

house, he began to say all those things which he suppressed 

the whole week for fear to lose his job. He told everybody 

the truth then. And Brecht also mentions what he said — 

I forget — and he said, "We laughed so much that our belly 


WESCHLER: And what about his marriage to Lou? That broke up? 

FEUCHTWANGER: That broke up. In Germany they were divorced, 

but they were very good friends. She married a Viennese 

writer, Fischer, and wrote books with him also. I think 

one was Prince Eugen [ Ein Roman in Dialogen ] ; you know, 

he was the friend of the archduke of Jud Siiss. He was 

a famous field marshal. Prince Eugen, against the Turks 

in Belgrade. And then, once Hanns Eisler came to see her 

in Vienna--he came from East Germany--and I think he lived 

also in their apartment. And all of a sudden he had a 

heart attack. The new husband of Lou Eisler was so upset 

about it that he too became a heart attack. And so both 


have been brought to the hospital, and Lou Eisler took 
care of both of them. And there is a funny thing. I 
told this story to so many different people, and every- 
body had to laugh when I tell that. It's nothing to 
laugh, when somebody, or even two, have a heart attack, but 
it's this coincidence. Everybody has to laugh. Fortunately 
both recovered, but later on Hanns Eisler died of another 
heart attack. 

WESCHLER: Did you ever see Eisler again before he died? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, never. When I was in Germany he had 
already died. But I cannot imagine that I didn't meet his 
wife. She must not have been there, because I'm sure 
she would have.... 
WESCHLER: His second wife? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , ja, his second wife [Steffy] . Because 
we are corresponding sometimes. 
WESCHLER: Was he happy with his second wife? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Very happy. She was a real beautiful girl, 
I heard, and they were very happy. I was so glad for him. 
WESCHLER: Okay, moving from Hanns Eisler, let's talk 
a little bit about the conditions of Brecht ' s departure. 
First of all, in the last couple of weeks we've had a few 
other thoughts to say about Brecht here, and in particular 
you have been looking at the Arbeits Journal, his daily 
journal, and you wanted to warn me or anybody who would read 


the book, that it is not a diary. 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, it cannot be. He himself writes in one 
little chapter, just a few lines, that this cannot — 
he cannot use that for later on because he had to leave 
out so many things which are on the border line; he couldn't 
cross the border line. So to himself he says that he could 
not [write] everything what went through his mind. And 
also, of course, he was always thinking about when he would 
be arrested, how everything what he had written would be 
confiscated and many things which he didn't want people to 
read could have been there presented, [pause in tape] 
WESCHLER: Of the entries that do get into the Arbeits 
Journal , however, some of them are very funny. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, Brecht said he was sitting with Lion 
Feuchtwanger in his beautiful garden — that was during the 
war--and Lion Feuchtwanger told him that now the army has 
something which eliminates some hormones which they give 
to people who are homosexual. And Feuchtwanger said, "So 
now not even the homosexual has any fun in the war." 
WESCHLER: So that the Arbeits book is a fairly good 
source, even amended as it is, for getting interesting anec- 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja, that is true. (But that's not 
personal, you know.) 
WESCHLER: You told me that you didn't think that Brecht was 


fair to Mann in what he wrote. 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I think what he said was not fair. He 
shouldn't had said, for instance, that Mann had four 
cars, or something, while Heinrich Mann had to go for 
state welfare. Several times he speaks about that. But 
he should know that in America, it has nothing to do with 
luxury when somebody has four cars, because when somebody 
has several children who are grown up and have to make their 
living, everybody has to have a car. Nobody had a new 
car; they all had secondhand cars. Thomas Mann had a big 
car — I think it was an old Cadillac — and that was for him- 
and his wife (his wife drove the car) . And Klaus Mann 
was here, and Erika, and they went through the whole 
America by car because both were journalists and wrote for 
newspapers and also wrote books together. And Golo Mann 
was professor in Pomona: he couldn't walk there--there is 
no other possibility, he had to have an old car. They 
were all there, of course, in the court, or in the garage, 
but that doesn't mean that was any luxury. There were 
still the other children who had no cars. And I think it 
was not just to write that. You know, when you write that 
from Europe I could understand. I told you once how 
amazed I was when Dorothy Thompson said that they had two 
cars in America. And she told me, "One is our car, and one 
is the car of the cook." But they had a big estate somewhere 


in the countryside, and the cook had also to go shopping and so, 
So, from the European point of view, you can understand, 
but somebody who lives here should know better, I think. 
WESCHLER: Okay. We can now come to the point where there 
was growing tension about Brecht also. Just for chronology, 
in July 1947, Galileo was produced with Charles Laughton. 
And in October 19 47, Brecht was siammoned before the Un- 
American Activities Committee. Unlike Eisler, Brecht 
did not return to Los Angeles after he went to Washington. 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, he didn't want to stretch his luck. 
He was there one day, and the senator in the hearing 
even thanked him for his collaboration. He was very 
skillful, you know, what I told you, hinterfotzig , this 
word in Augsburg. For instance, when he has been shown a 
poem, this [Rep. J. Parnell] Thomas--he later 
went to jail, much to our pleasure--he showed him a poem 
and said, "Did you write this poem?" So Brecht looked at 
it and said, "No." He said, "What? That's your name on 
it!" He said, "Yes, but this is a translation." And things 
like that. But they were not up to this kind of thinking. 
WESCHLER: Wiliness. He was very wily. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Wily, yes, that's the word. And they were 
not up to this kind — also they were not up to speak really 
with a poet or a writer. They could speak with actors or 
movie people, but a writer, and [especially] a foreign 


writer, was always for them something which they were a 

little bit in awe of. And Thomas even thanked Brecht for 

his collaboration. But when Brecht left, he immediately went 

to buy a ticket, and the next day--he should have gone 

back to the hearing — he was already on a ship. That's 

what I heard, I don't know anything more. He didn't write 

about it. 

WESCHLER: The last time he saw you here in Los Angeles, 

did he already know he was going to be leaving, do you think? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he came here to this house to say goodbye 

He gave me this brooch here — it's from his family. It's 

about 200 years old now. 

WESCHLER: That's a black circular brooch with a flower, 

a gold flower or something. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, it looks almost like a French lily. 

No, it's an intarsia — the lily of the valley, they call it. 

And it was from his family. I think his wife had it, and 

he asked her to give it to me. And we helped them a lot. 

I bought some things of hers--for instance, this one here, 

[the stand] for wood, you know, for the fireplace. And 

I paid, of course, a lot of money for it. She found that 

I overpaid it also. But I wanted to help them whatever 

I could. And we couldn't give them money like that, so 

I just bought things and said, "I think this would 

be worth like that." And then I got this brooch. 


WESCHLER: Do you remember what you paid for your wood 


FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, about fifty dollars — something like that. 

WESCHLER: So this was the last meeting. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , then both [Lion and Brecht] were 

outside on the terrace, sitting on the bench, and that's 

when Ruth Berlau made this world-famous photo. It was in 

all the newspapers. 

WESCHLER: The picture that's in the Berlin Academy 

Feuchtwanger catalog. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , ja, the catalog. And in many newspapers, 

it was. 

WESCHLER: Was Brecht bitter at that time, do you think, 

about America? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, he was not bitter, no, I wouldn't say, 

because he didn't expect anything. Bitter you are when you 

expect something and it doesn't turn out. He was sorry 

to leave us, you know; he didn't know when he would ever 

see us again: he knew that my husband couldn't go out 

from America, and he couldn't go in anymore, and so it 

was a very sad situation. He was very much--what shall 

I say? — very near to my husband, so it was a very sad 


WESCHLER: Why couldn't Lion leave the country? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He was not allowed to. He could not have 


come back. If he had left the country, they wouldn't 
have held him back, but they told him he wouldn't get 
an entrance visa anymore. So since we couldn't take 
this house, like I told you, on our back like a snail, 
so we couldn't go out. We hoped for better times, always. 
My husband never wrote to Germany--when they always asked 
him when he would come, he said, "I think I will come 
pretty soon," or so; he never told them why he couldn't 
come. He was afraid also the letters would be opened. 
WESCHLER: Well, Brecht left here. Did he go directly 
to East Germany? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, he went to Switzerland and worked there 
for the theater. And they were expecting him. During 
the war, they were playing Mother Courage and other 
plays of his there all the time. The director [Kurt] 
Hirschfeld was a great admirer of his. And he had all, 
much chances to stay there. He made an adaptation--or 
it's more than an adaptation; it's called a poetical re- 
working or something like that — of Antigone. His wife 
played in it, but it was no financial success. So he had 
nothing to do there; he couldn't live there. So he went 
to East Germany. But he had an Austrian passport. 
WESCHLER: Why did he have an Austrian passport? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, his wife was Austrian, so he thought 
it's more comfortable to have both the same kind of 



WESCHLER: Do you think he was reluctant to have East 
German citizenship right away? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, automatically he was German again. 
Everybody who went back to Germany--in those days, the 
separation was not so strict--everybody who went back 
had automatically his citizenship. But he wanted the 
Austrian citizenship probably because he thought he could 
travel better with the Austrian passport. 

WESCHLER: Okay. But in fact you never saw Brecht again, 
neither you nor Lion? Did you correspond? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, in the beginning they corresponded 
more on account of Simone , you know, because both found 
that it wasn't really finished. It was finished, but 
they thought it should have maybe another kind of finale. 
And then they had agreed that everybody writes his own 
end. My husband was not very happy about something which 
he saw. When it has been printed the first time in 
East Germany--it was not as a book; it was in a magazine — 
there was this part where the girl has been picked up to 
go to the penitentiary, and there were two nuns. My 
husband found this not very--because they had been shown 
as very brutal. It seems that in France there is this 
kind of penitentiary for children or so that was run by 
nuns. But there was no reason to show them so brutal. 


Maybe they were brutal, we don't know. It has been said 
that the children were not very well treated there, but 
nobody knew exactly. And my husband didn't want that; 
he only said he wanted that it be "two gray women." 
But in the publishing in Germany there were two nuns. 
But Brecht was already dead when this has been published, 
so we suspect his secretary, Elisabeth Hauptmann, who 
hated the Catholics,... She had two great hates: Thomas 
Mann and the Catholics. She always called them "the 
Cathols." And I think that she made this ending where they 
called them the two nuns instead of the two gray women. 
Because here they called them the two gray women. And when 
it has been played here in Pomona, this beautiful theater 
at the university, I even suggested that the roles should 
be played by men so you could see immediately by their 
behavior and their movements that they were brutal, but 
not as nuns. They were not in the nun habit, just in gray 

WESCHLER: You still have the Brecht correspondence in 
your files? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but there is not much there. Both 
were not really letter writers, neither Brecht nor my 


SEPTEMBER 12, 1975 

WESCHLER: We're talking about the onslaught of the anti- 
Communist hearings and the hysteria here. So far we've 
talked in pretty good detail about Eisler and Brecht. 
Were there other people here in the German community who 
were attacked by the hearings? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I had rather the feelings that they 
thought those Communists had it coming; there was a 
kind of satisfaction. 
WESCHLER: The Germans felt that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. For instance, Thomas Mann always 
tried to — he did a lot for Eisler, tried to help him, 
wrote letters and so; but in a way I thought that they 
had a kind of satisfaction. They were not touched by 
the whole thing, and they said just, "They had it coming." 
WESCHLER: Who do you mean by "they"? Are you talking 
more about the Austrians, or are you talking just about the 
emigres in general? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Everybody who was here. 

WESCHLER: So it was a relative minority of the German 
emigres who were persecuted? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Not relative. They were a very little 
minority who were attacked. 


There were more Americans [attacked] than emigrants. 

WESCHLER: You mentioned Alma Mahler's feelings 

about Stalin once. I don't know if we ever put that on 


FEUCHTWANGER: Alma Mahler was, of course, very much 

against communism. She told me that her husband was 

very left, and during the first revolution in Germany and 

Austria [in 1918], he was — she called him a Communist 


WESCHLER: Gustav Mahler. Which? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, Werfel. Gustav Mahler was already 

dead. Werfel was not her husband yet, but they were in 

love, and not even... it was not so far yet. But she told 

me that Werfel was a Communist; she called him like that. 

He was a socialist, you could say, and very left, a 

revolutionary once, she said, he came to her house 

with his hair all in disorder and his collar open, and 

he looked "like a Communist," she said. And she said 

to him, "You know, when you come like that, I don't open the 

door for you anymore." So the next time, he was very well 

dressed, she said. That's what she told me. (She always 

told the things, you know, what she thought.) And it 

was very funny, because she was Catholic from birth, and 

he was Jewish, but I always called her a heathen. I said, 

"You are not a Catholic, you are a heathen." She never 


went to church or so, was not a believer, a great believer. 
But she was in those circles in Austria; that was high 
society, you know. But Werfel became a Christian, al- 
though he was never baptized; he said he couldn't do that 
now with the Nazis, but he was a real Christian. He 
felt himself — he went to confession every Sunday, and he 
bought a house near the Catholic church. And also at 
his burial, a funeral speech has been spoken by a 
Catholic priest (who was a German also here) . And then, 
just when the news of Stalingrad came, the Russian vic- 
tory, she called my husband and said, "You know, your 
Stalin is a genius." [laughter] 

WESCHLER: So she would have been among those who, you 
think, were more in the majority; they weren't terribly 
upset by the fate of these people who were being kicked 
out of the country. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, they were sorry about them — I'm sure 
they were--because we were all under one blanket, as 
I always say; we were all emigrants, and nobody felt 
real secure. But in a way, they said, they had it 
coming. I think the greatest enemy of the Communists was 
Bruno Walter--no, Bruno Walter, too, but also Bruno Frank. 
They were more verbal about it. There were also the people 
that were between — like Gina Kaus . Her husband [Frischauer] 
was a lawyer, and he was a great admirer of Brecht and also 


very near to Brecht and gave him always advice, legal 

advice. They were not Communists, but they were not 

anti-Communists, you know. They were artists or so and 

good friends. But later on I heard that [the] Brecht [s] 

met Gina Kaus at the theater in Berlin — but before it was 

really two Germanies: they still could go to the West 

German theater--and they didn't recognize her. They 

didn't speak with her, and she thought they have seen her, 

but I think it was because she spoke over the RIAS , the 

American broadcasting.... 

WESCHLER: Radio in the American Sector. 

FEUCHTWANGER: And it was very much against communism. 

I don't think that she spoke against communism. Just that 

she was speaking in this broadcast was enough for Brecht 

not to recognize her anymore. And in a way it was amazing- 

and also his wif e--because they really did so. much 

for Brecht, both of them. 

WESCHLER: Okay, I'm just going to mention some people who 

were also affected by the inquisition. You mentioned 

Giinther Stern. 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know if he was ever inquisited or 

something, inquired about, but I know that he was very 


WESCHLER: Who was he? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, a writer, a philosopher. I don't know 


more about him. I think he went back to Austria. Maybe- 

he is even alive still, I don't know. 

WESCHLER: And he was very much left? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He was a great friend also of [Max] 

Horkheimer and those people. But he was the most to the 

left of all of those. But if he was really a Communist 

I couldn't tell. When somebody didn't stand there and 

say, "I'm a Communist," nobody asked, you know. 

WESCHLER: What about [Wilhelm] Herzog? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Herzog, yes, he was in Germany. He was 

a communist for a while. "Salon communists," they called 

it. It seems he got money from Russia for propaganda. He 

had a very sophisticated magazine and also a kind of society 

which were called Forum. And there were always lectures: 

Heinrich Mann spoke there about Zola (only it was not much 

about politics; it was more literary). 

WESCHLER: Where was that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: In Munich, when we were all in Munich 

then. But he was a kind of--they called it Don Juan, if 

they call it here like that, you know--a kind of playboy. 

But it's not the right word: he was not a boy, he was 

not a playboy. He looked very pale and very interesting, 

daemonic and so, and always very sinister, full of deep 

thought and so. I heard from Eric Miihsam — who was even 

worse than a Communist because he was an anarchist--he told 


me that Herzog has been expelled from the Communists 
because of financial irregularities. It seems that the 
money he should have used for propaganda, he used for 
his magazine or something. I don't know exactly what 
it was. Anyway, I knew that all of a sudden he became anti- 
Communistic. He came also to Sanary. In Munich he had 
been a great friend of Heinrich Mann, but Heinrich Mann 
didn't like his changing from one day to the other; so he 
was more on the side of Thomas Mann then. He came to 
Sanary, and he lived there for a while with a German 
girl--I think I told about her, the one who was lying 
beside me in the concentration camp and had so much to 
eat [Anne-Marie....]; remember, she was married with a 
French banker then--Herzog brought her to Sanary. So 
Herzog was living there, and when there were all those 
inquiries always about the foreigners during the war.... 
I knew the man who made the inquiries very well; he had 
no real — what should I say? — political inclinations, this 
man; he was just what they call the Sflrete, the Deuxieme 
Bureau (like here it's the same as the FBI). And he came 
also to our house very often. My husband was always busy 
working, so he said it's enough when he speaks with me. 
He asked me questions, and I answered questions, as much 
and as truthful as I could. And then one day he said, 
"You know, your friend Herzog is not really your friend; 


he told me that your husband is a Communist." And then we 
found out that he did that in kind of self-defense. When 
my husband has been sent the first time to the concen- 
tration camp (he was in the age where all the Germans 
had been sent) , Herzog was a year older than my husband, 
and he was not sent to the concentration camp. So he 
thought he would never be in danger. But to make it 
more secure, he thought he wanted to make a kind of 
border or wall between us, so he wouldn't belong to 
my husband. And that's why he said [Lion] is a Communist. 
But then in Les Milles, all of a sudden, Mr. Herzog came, 
too, because his age was then called too, to the con- 
centration camp. Of course, Herzog probably knew that my 
husband knew, but my husband was always too much gentleman- 
like; he never told anything what he thought. So they 
went along; they didn't hold much company there, but they 
went along. And then my husband told me that he was sick 
in San Nicolas and has been sent to the hospital. And 
he really looked so sick. Some people, sometimes, even 
when they are healthy, look like they are dying, and he 
looked always like that. He was so pale, and he could 
make himself look so sick that I'm sure that was the reason 
why he was free then--they didn't want him dying there. 
So we lost him. We didn't hear anything about him; 
we didn't know how he was, what he was doing, [partly] 


because we were not interested. But all of a sudden he 

came here. He was here and visited us, came to us as if 

nothing had ever happened. As if nobody was a Communist 

ever — neither he nor my husband. [laughter] My husband 

accepted him with gentility. And then he lived for a 

while here, and then he said he has to leave. I think 

he went back to Germany, and we heard that he was refused 

the citizenship because somebody, it seems, denounced him 

as a Communist, that he was once a Communist. He was not 

expelled or so — I don't know how it happened. Anyway, he 

didn't get even the first paper, I think, something like 

that, only a visitor's visa which has been extended for 

a while. And then in Munich he was again a writer, got even 

a prize there and made himself very popular. And then he 


WESCHLER: Well, I'd like to turn a little bit to Lion's 

reactions to all this. I suppose the thing that comes 

to mind immediately is the play he was writing at this time. 

The Devil in Boston [Wahn oder Per Teufel in Boston ] . 

Can you tell a little bit of the background, what brought 

him to that subject? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, it was the background that he wanted 

to give a mirror of the past to the present, what was 

always his principle in his writing, to [communicate] not 

the ashes of the past but the fire. To show the fire. 


And the fire in Cotton Mather's days was the same as it 
was in our days . 

WESCHLER: How had he come to know about Cotton Mather? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, he was looking in American history. 
He wanted to have a kind of parallel to these times. 
And while he would never have been allowed to write what 
he wanted to write about the Un-American Committee-- 
nobody would have printed it, and it would have been just 
for the drawer--so he wanted to make a parallel which would 
have been accepted. And this was the only way, by way of 
history. What he did already in Germany, and always. 
He said always the people didn't change from the beginning 
of mankind, the people were always the same; it was only 
the events which were different. And so it was easy to 
show something without underlining what he meant. 
Everybody could understand if he wanted. And that was 
also his condition when he wrote anyway, that it would 
be art and not photography. 

WESCHLER: So he chose the theme of Cotton Mather. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that's why he chose Cotton Mather. And 
also he didn't want a kind of mean person or so; he wanted 
to show somebody who was a personality and had his good 
sides, but was driven to it by a kind of fanaticism which 
made him blind to everything else. He didn't want to make 
a meanie or so. [laughter] [pause in tape] 


WESCHLER: One of the things that's very interesting about 
that play is how the girl character, Hannah, is again 
this central character. It struck me in reading it — 
I read it very soon after I read Simone , and it struck 
me that these two plays that he wrote during the forties, 
and actually an awful lot of his works, have these 
daughter figures, these adolescent girl figures. 
FEUCHTWANGER : But in this case I don't think it has any 
meaning that it was the daughter, because there is no 
meeting between the daughter and her father. There is no 
stressing the relationship which he did in his other works. 
The Jewess of Toledo , for instance, and also Jud Siiss . 
It was just that he found there were some girls like 
that — it is history. And he wanted to show that, how 
it worked on young people, people, how it also deteriorated 
the mind of young people, this fanaticism, and how it 
worked on hysteria. 

WESCHLER: Was that something that was the case in the 
McCarthy period? Was it affecting young people more than 
other people, do you think, the anti-Communist hysteria? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, I don't think so. But it was just neces- 
sary for theater to make it alive, not to make those — 
to show the older people and also the younger people 
how it poisons the younger people. It was his belief 
that it must also go over to the young people here. 


In a way it did also, but in another way it made the 
young people fatalistic here. They were full of fear 
because they felt the fear of the parents. That is the 
reason why in the fifties the young people were so fatal- 
istic. And this was probably a result of those times: 
the parents were so much fearful. Also he was thinking, 
of course, of the parallel to the Nazis where the young 
people sometimes denounced their own parents. And that's 
what he wanted to show. It's not enough to show only 
grown-up people; it has to be shown how it influences the 
young people and that those fanatics like Cotton Mather 
were playing on hysterics, instead of the truth. Cotton 
Mather was intelligent enough to know. He knew about medi- 
cine also; he even introduced the vaccination against 
smallpox here. So he must have recognized that this girl 
is hysterical. But he used every means to impose his 
fanaticism. And you can only show that when he has a 
young girl or a young person. 

WESCHLER: We were talking the other day in this context 
about the way in which Lion's fondness for young girls 
in his fiction and in his plays may have something to 
do with his having lost your daughter. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Not in this case. 

WESCHLER: Not in this particular case, but in other cases. 
FEUCHTWANGER: In other cases, ja, ja. When a daughter like 


the daughter of Jud Siiss or the daughter in The Jewess of 
Toledo perishes, this is something else. But in this case 
it was just to show a young person. It could have been 
also the son, but it wouldn't have worked really when a 
son is hysterical; it doesn't work when a young boy has 
these kind of hysterical attacks. 

WESCHLER: Just one thing I wanted to see if we could get 
here, parenthetically, by the way, is something that you 
told me about those early days of your marriage, that not 
only had you lost the one daughter but.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I was pregnant again, too early, and 
the doctors told me that I shouldn't be pregnant so soon. 
WESCHLER: This was in Monte Carlo. 

FEUCHTWANGER: It was in Monte Carlo when we had lost 
everything. When I found it out, I went to a midwife. 
I couldn't go to a doctor because it wasn't allowed to 
make an abortion. I asked in a pharmacy about a midwife. 
I said I needed a midwife to the pharmacist, and I got an 
address. It was very dirty there and very dark and eerie; 
she was fat and looked like an old sorcerer. She did what 
was necessary, but I was very much afraid that she could 
infect me; I think it was with iodine that she did it, and 
I was afraid of the dirt there. Afterwards I had to go 
back to the hotel — I couldn't go into a hospital — and I 
had a terrible attack of iodine infection, allergy also. 


My whole body burned: the whole skin of my body was 
burning and red. I couldn't sleep. It was very painful. 
For the first time in my life I asked my husband to go 
to the pharmacy and ask for something to sleep (I had 
never before taken any sleeping pills) . And it helped 
a little bit. But it lasted three days and was very bad. 
And then we left. As soon as I was better, we left with 
our backpack. 

WESCHLER: And that was your trip to Italy. Did you want 
to have children at any point after? 

FEUCHTWANGER: It was just not possible, you know, for 
responsible people to have a child, because I couldn't 
have so soon a child, and then when we went back to 
Germany, there was a war on — it was not the time to have 
a child, where we all were hungry, the children there. 
You could see that afterwards: even the Nazis, part of them 
were war children, and it had something to do with their 
bitterness, and also they were not very strong. And 
then afterwards when we went to Berlin, we had no real 
apartment at first until we had the house, and the house 
we had only for two years. That was the only time we were 
really settled during our whole marriage until then, 
until '33, those two years of quietness. And there we 
were always on trips to foreign countries because we liked 
to travel, and so it never happened--and then I was too old 


probably, very soon. 

WESCHLER: Did you regret that in your later years? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I didn't regret it because I was afraid it 
would have been a great responsibility, also against my 
husband. He had enough with his whole family; he had to 
support many people, and one person more.... And with 
our flight from Europe and so — it was just not.... And 
then I was already fifty when I arrived here. 
WESCHLER: How about Lion? Did he regret not having chil- 

FEUCHTWANGER: He never said so. I didn't know. We never 
spoke about it. 

WESCHLER: Coming back to Hannah again, in The Devil in 
Boston , I wanted to make a comment, having just read it, 
about the way in which Hannah really does have remarkable 
similarities to Simone. Even though she's the opposite 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that's true. 

WESCHLER: It struck me in reading it that it's that same 
kind of desire to transform the historical, to be an 
important historical figure, in a way. Simone has that 
drive to save all of France, and Hannah wants to save all 
of Massachusetts. 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I don't think so. Hannah is more or 
less an actress, you know — she acts. And Simone was a 


pure person; she was a pure child and wanted [only] for 
her country. Hannah was not for anything. She was not 
for the belief, I think. She didn't want to save any- 
thing, or any country; she just wanted to act. 
WESCHLER: I guess the thing that came out is that al- 
though they are doing similar kinds of things, Hannah 
is doing it hysterically, in a fake way, where Simone 
was doing it in a pure way, doing it in an authentic 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I don't think there are any parallels, 
because Hannah had no real ideas or ideals. She didn't 
want to do anything good or bad, she just wanted to 
play, to play herself. She wanted to act herself but 
not for something or for somebody. The only parallel 
is that both are young and were possessed. The child in 
Simone was possessed by her brother to help the country, 
and Hannah was possessed--maybe also by Cotton Mather, 
but also because she wanted to be an interesting person. 
She was a little bit like this girl now who wanted to 
kill Ford. 

WESCHLER: Squeaky [Lynette] Fromme, for those of you in 
the future. . . . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, who is not squeaky at all, I think. 
No, she wanted to play herself. 
WESCHLER: I guess the contrast I'm trying to get at is 


the contrast between an authentic kind of patriotism 

which Simone has for France and this inauthentic kind 

of patriotism which both Hannah and the Un-American 

Activities Committee and so forth had. Do you see what 

I mean? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I don't see it like that. I see only 

that also my husband wanted to show the hysterics which 

are — he saw that so many who followed the ideas of the 

Un-American Committee, and mostly also McCarthy, were 

also hysterics. For instance, also the friends of McCarthy, 

the two young boys [Roy Cohn and G. David Schine] --they 

were also hysterics. But that was before McCarthy. But 

then it is also kind of prophetical that it didn't work: 

fortunately, it didn't work on the young people here. 

There were not many followers; it was mostly the older 

people who were for the Un-American Committee. I don't 

remember that anywhere young people or students were for it. 

There was no student movement of this kind. 

WESCHLER: Let's talk a little bit about how it was received 

and whether that message came across. Was it performed 


FEUCHTWANGER: It was performed only once. It was in the 

Circle Theatre, on El Centre Street [in a run which began on 

February 20, 1952] . 

WESCHLER: How did that come about? 


FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, there was a man with the name of 

[pause in tape] The director of the Habimah [Benjamin 
Zemach] : He heard about this play and came to my husband 
and asked him if he could make it at the theater — that was 
all. Later we heard that a friend of mine had financed that, 
but we didn't know him then in those days, Mr. Bertram 
Sheldon. He financed it. The theater was owned by Boroff, 
the brother-in-law of Shelley Winters. So he had an interest 
to look for a play. In a way, he was a very simple man, but 
he was very much for real art and literature. He didn't 
want to play just any play just to have a success; he wanted 
to do something which has a sense also, a kind of message. 
And he was very happy to find this play. So together with 
this director [Zemach], he asked my husband to play it. And 
my husband was sympathetic. There was William Schallert 
who played it, and he was the son of the critic of the 
Los Angeles Times, Edwin Schallert. He played Cotton 
Mather; he was very young still, but he was very good. 
(He played later the judge in [Daniel Berrigan's] The 
Catonsville Nine . He played the judge, also very good, 
and he is also a figure in television; he's playing a 
lot of work there.) And Hannah was played by Catherine 
O'Donnell. Cathy O'Donnell was her name. She was a very 
famous young actress, and she was the sister-in-law of 
William Wyler. She was excellent, fantastic, really. She 


did a kind of dancing when she was alone; she spoke with 
the chairs around her. You cannot see it in the play 
when you read it: when the others are gone and she is 
alone, she does the whole scene for herself again. She 
was really excellent. She died very young: it was a great 
pity. She was wonderful. And then another actress played 
it also; she was also very good. [Norma] Eberhart was her 
name; I think she's still alive, in France. She married 
a French actor, a famous French actor. He is a director 
[Claude Dauphin]. Later Zemach went back to Israel then. 
WESCHLER: How was the play received? First of all, what 
was the audience like? 

FEUCHTWANGER: The audience was fantastic. Boroff was really 
on clouds. He said, "My whole theater"--it was a very small 
theater--" there are only famous people there." 
WESCHLER: Who was there? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Thomas Mann and his wife, and Heinrich Mann 
and his wife, and Huxley and his wife, and Dore Schary, and 
many great writers from here, who lived here. I think 
Albert Maltz was also there, and Linus Pauling — so every- 
body who was somebody was there. 
WESCHLER: And how was it received? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, of course, it would have been [well] 
received [even] if people hadn't liked it, I think, 
because they all liked my husband. So I cannot say. But 


it was a great success: it had a beautiful writing in 

the newspapers, and it played very long. 

V7ESCHLER: Now, when you read it, it's obvious that it was 

about the Un-American Activities [Committee] . Was it equally 

obvious at that time, or was it possible to see it without 

catching the reference? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Not everybody understood it that it was. It 

was just an interesting scene of American history for many 

people who didn't know much about that time. And this was 

also the intention, you know; my husband didn't want to make 

propaganda plays. , 

WESCHLER: Well, it's clear also that the characters are 

extremely complex, and it's not just a simple piece of 

propaganda. Did anybody get in trouble because of it, do 

you think? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I don't think that people understood 

what was meant. [laughter] Even in the hearings, when my 

husband had the hearings about his citizenship, I never 

heard it mentioned in this way. 

WESCHLER: Well, that just goes to show the value of 

oblique criticism, that the people who are criticized don't 

even see it themselves. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, that's true. 

WESCHLER: Another set of questions about it, of course, 

have to do with a play which came a few years later. 


which is Arthur Miller's play The Crucible . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, nobody could understand how this came to 
pass. I have heard different kinds of stories about it. 
This play has been brought to New York by Norman Lloyd, 
who wanted his daughter [Suzanne] , who was a young ac- 
tress .... • 

WESCHLER: The Devil in Boston was brought to New York...? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. Norman Lloyd's daughter wanted 
to play the part of Hannah. We didn't even know about it, 
that he was in New York with the play. He brought it to 
several theater directors, and nothing happened, but they 
didn't give the play back. Only after four months, they 
sent it back without a word. And then, all of a sudden, 
this play by Arthur Miller has been performed. My 
husband had great respect of Arthur Miller and also admired 
him as a writer; he didn't want to believe — and he didn't 
believe — that he was a plagiarist or something. But some- 
body told me later that those things happen very often in 

WESCHLER: Who told you this? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know. I have to ask him if he wants 
me to say it. That was another writer who said the same 
thing happened to him. I thought that maybe the director 
who had this play, who we know was a friend of Arthur 
Miller. . . . 


WESCHLER: Who was that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't remember the name; I only know that 

he was a friend of Arthur Miller's. That's what I heard. 

And that probably he said to Arthur Miller, "How about 

writing a play from this time or so?" Told him about it. 

It is not the same play, you know. 

WESCHLER: Of course, not at all, but it is the same theme. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. And so, probably in good faith, 

Arthur Miller wrote this play. I don't think he would have 

done it if he had known of the other play. But I think that 

the director knew what he wanted. 

WESCHLER: Well, with that bit of coyness, we will move on. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but I don't even know which director 

it was because it has been shown to several directors. 

WESCHLER: Okay. Have you ever seen Arthur Miller's play? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I have never read it and never seen 

it. So many people told me--even here, they all told me — 

even the admirers of Arthur Miller found that my husband's 

play was better. And I didn't want to take any part, so 

I just didn't read it, so I could say in good faith that 

I don't even know it. 

WESCHLER: So I can ask you right now, which do you like 

better, Arthur Miller's play or The Devil in Boston ? 

FEUCHTWANGER: But I haven't read it. 

WESCHLER: And you can say you haven't read it. 


FEUCHTWANGER: Ja . [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Okay. Another thing that Lion was working on at 
this time was the Goya book [ This Is the Hour ] . I've been 
skimming through the Goya book and there are many passages 
in it that are similarly tinged with this feeling of.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, ja. That's true, ja, ja. 
WESCHLER: Did he talk about the Spanish Inquisition as 
another model for what was happening at that time? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh yes. No, we didn't talk about it, we 
knew it. Everybody knew it, of course, ja. And also I knew; 
he didn't have to talk about it. He read everything before 
he spoke it, before he wrote it; then we discussed it, and 
then we wrote it down or dictated it, and then we discussed 
it again. So it was necessary to lose a single word about 
it, what it meant. 

WESCHLER: In several places I've read this phrase that he 
kept on saying, how he had fourteen novels he had to 
finish, or something like this. Do you think the reason 
he took up the Goya novel at that point was because it did 
have those themes of Inquisition? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja, absolutely. 

WESCHLER: I know way back, we were talking about how he 
liked Spain already in 1926, when he went to the Prado, 
how already at that time he wanted to write about.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, and also in Paris, in the Louvre, 


where we saw etchings of Goya. The etchings made a 
much greater impression on him than his paintings. In 
those days he already was thinking about writing a Goya 

WESCHLER: But it was the urgency of the moment. 
FEUCHTWANGER: And also that influenced the whole, the 
accent which he had made on it. Because at first it was 
only a situation in which Goya came, but then he wanted 
to stress it, make the accent on it, that it was like 
the fire of our time and not the ashes of history, 
[pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: The Goya novel is another one that explores a 
theme that we've really encountered a good deal, which is 
the way in which Lion moved from the aesthetical to a more 
political sense. Maybe you can talk a bit about how this 
relates here. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. When he began as a writer, before the 
First World War, he was only interested in 1 ' art pour 
1' art , in art by itself, and also in individuals, in 
putting against each other two different kind of people, 
like in Hastings or so. Those people had different ideas, 
but it was always as individuals. It was never thought 
about the masses or about the consequences of people. 
It was always about interesting people, you could say. 
But after he went through the First World War, he changed 


entirely. In 1915 he wrote the first revolutionary antiwar 

poem which has been written in Germany, and also published, 

and this was already the beginning of his change. And Goya is 

a kind of confession. He, Goya, also himself was kind of a 

peasant man, of simple heritage; he was very glad to become the 

painter of the court and was proud of what he could achieve as 

a painter. And then he has been asked, because he had influence 

as a painter of the court, to interfere for people who have been 

persecuted. At first he didn't want to do it, and then he saw 

things happening in Spain, and also he saw what the Inquisition 

did to people. And he found out that he cannot paint anymore as 

he wanted to paint, that he has to paint only to do something 

with his paintings. And this was a kind of parallel to Feucht- 

wanger's own developement. 

WESCHLER: Do you think that the Spanish Civil War had an 

impact on the course that Goya took? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Absolutely, ja, ja. That was the impact of the 

etchings. You mean the modern civil war? 

WESCHLER: The modern civil war. Do you think that's reflected 

in the novel Goya, the anguish that Lion felt over that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it was, but it was already there, you know. Ht 

didn't need that anymore, because it was already in his mind for 

so many years to write this novel. So it was only a kind of — he 

saw that it was true what he felt. But it was nothing new anymore. 

WESCHLER: Was this novel fairly easy for him to write? 


FEUCHTWANGER: No, nothing was easy for him. He never chose 
an easy theme. And also when he wrote, he was very obsessed 
by what he is doing. He lost every sense of the present some- 
times. It was never easy. He could not sleep most of the time 
he wrote. Many times during the night I went up and he was 
sitting at his desk. And he had always a notebook by his bed. 
He just was not living in real life; he was living in his 
novels when he wrote. [pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: You had mentioned that you were very, very much 
impressed by the etchings of Goya. I'm interested in how 
Lion immersed himself in his material when he was writing. 
Maybe we can use this as an example. Did he have the etchings, 
or at least books about the etchings? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, we have a first edition of the etchings 
here. He always said he loses too much time to go to the 
libraries for research; he would rather have the books coming 
from Europe or everywhere he could. For every new novel he had 
a whole library, and he had always to change: in his study he 
had two or three shelves, and when one novel was finished, then 
they had to be changed for the new books for the new novel. 
WESCHLER: What kinds of research? Was it primarily books 
about Goya, or was it books about Spain, or both? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Everything. It was the books about Goya's 
paintings; and about the history of Spain; and the history 
of Napoleon; about Napoleon's brother, who was the king of 


Spain in those times; and about the people, how they lived 
then; and also religion--everything what happened 
in those days. And he had all the books here. He didn't 
have to go to a library. 

WESCHLER: Well, we're beginning to run out of tape on 
this side also. For next time I'd like you to think about 
the history of the library itself, how the library devel- 


SEPTEMBER 15, 1975 

WESCHLER: Today I'd like to begin with mention of one 
other member of the community here who we have not talked 
of yet, and that is, of course, Carl Ebert. You mentioned 
to me off tape just new that the first time you had ever 
seen him was at a performance of Stravinsky's Histoire 
du Soldat . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, the first time that I saw him was on 
the stage in Berlin. It was just several days after the 
world premiere of The Threepenny Opera . I went into the 
State Theatre, and they played The Song of the Soldier by 
Stravinsky; he was the narrator. The whole thing, as you 
know, is not an opera; it is only speaking with music. But 
he was just outstanding, and the whole performance was 
outstanding. It made such an impression on me : I had 
never before heard anything of Stravinsky, but even The 
Threepenny Opera went into the background of my memory 
because this was such an impression. 

WESCHLER: Do you think that this was true of Berlin as a 
whole? Was it a sensation when it came out? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it was a great sensation as a whole, and 
also Carl Ebert was already there a great personality. He 
was the greatest theater man of Germany and the Weimar 


government, but mostly for the opera, as the director of 
the state opera and also as the director, what they called 
the General Intendant , of the former Imperial theaters, 
also in Wiesbaden. If he were not this rather democratic 
personality, he could have been an autocrat there. But 
he left Germany because he was a Socialist, he said (not 
a socialist as they call it now, a communist, but of the 
Socialist party) . He left Germany and went to Turkey 
where again he became such a great personality: when he 
comes back there for a visit, then he is received there like 
a potentate. He is always in contact with the young 
actors there. Here, he lives not far from me on the other 
side of a canyon [809 Enchanted Way, Pacific Palisades], 
and when I go a little higher on the hill, I can see his 
house on the rim of the canyon. 

One day I have been called by the committee for the 
audition of the Metropolitan Opera. And there is Carl 
Ebert, a great man, and they wanted him to come or at least 
to make a statement. Also they needed his curriculum 
vitae. They said they tried everything and they got no 
response, that nobody goes or comes on the telephone. So 
I said, "He doesn't live far from me. I will go over and 
look what's happened." So he was working in his garden. 
That's also how we met here: we are both, we were both 
passionate gardeners, and that was the beginning of our 


friendship. More the garden than the theater. 
WESCHLER: You had not known him? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Not personally. 

WESCHLER: Personally, you had not known him at all? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, not at all. So I told him, "Now, they 
asked me to persuade you to write for what they need, your 
personality and your statement." And he said, "Oh, I 
don't like those things. I am just over those things." 
So I said, "No, they asked me to do it, and I promised that 
I will do it. You go now inside the house and write it 
down. Maybe your wife will type it and then I bring it 
there." So I didn't leave the house. If he wanted to 
get rid of me, he had to do it. So he finally did every- 
thing what was wanted. And I rushed to the post office and 
sent it special delivery so it came in time for the big 

WESCHLER: Was he engaged in any theater here in Los Angeles? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he did here The Magic Flute every year, 
for a big association, I think, an educational thing. It 
was just fascinating, this performance. I saw it in the 
Shrine Auditorium, where 6,000 seats are; there were 6,000 
little students there. And to call them together, you 
know, it needed something. And I was invited. I was, I 
think, the only grown-up who was there--the teachers were 
there, of course.. One teacher asked me what I am doing 


there, and I said, "I'm a little old for a student, I admit 
it, but I have been invited by Carl Ebert, and I wouldn't 
miss this opportunity to see the opera." And it was 
fascinating. The most funny thing was when they intro- 
duced the whole thing to these young students — they were 
about from six to fifteen, I think--they said, "If you have 
to go out, then go out before. You can't go out during the 
performance." So it was a mass exodus, [laughter] But 
they behaved very well. It was so fascinating. And later 
his son Peter also came here and did the same as he. And 
it is a fantastic work; the son Peter was also here as direc- 
tor of the operas Salome and Don Giovanni , great performances. 
WESCHLER: Was Ebert sad, did he complain about not doing 
as much theater here as he had done? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I think he likes to enjoy his old age now. 
He's even older than I am, and that means something. [laughter] 
WESCHLER: How long has he been here in Los Angeles? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know. I didn't meet him right 
away. I met him only in the sixties. I think he was not 
living in this house before, and also he went away for a 
while to Germany; he was again in Berlin as Intendant 
General , and then he retired. He was again the great 
man in Germany; they were very glad to have him back. 
WESCHLER: What is he like, personalitywise? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, he is beautiful looking. He has the 


most fascinating blue eyes, and white hair, and a very 
healthy complexion. Tall and imposing, smiling, and oh — 
a fantastic man! 

WESCHLER: Is he a loud personality or a quiet person? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, he is quiet, but you don't think he's 
quiet, you know. He takes part in everything, and when he 
says something it sounds very energetic. He likes to 
listen--he is not a man who is very loquacious--but when 
he has something to say he really turns on. He doesn't 
take anything for granted: he explains what he wants. But 
when there are important occasions, he still is coming. 
For my eightieth birthday, he came to USC, when there was 
a performance in my honor. Then when Dorothy Huttenback 
had her seventy-fifth birthday, he came also. You know he 
is never--when he thinks he would make somebody a joy, then 
he comes. 

WESCHLER: Does he still take care of his garden? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I don't think so much because he fell once 
and had his knee hurt. So I don't think he is working so 
much in his garden. But still he is very much interested 
in the garden. And there is also--maybe I told you about 
Hans Brahm: he's a very dear friend of his. I think I 
told you about Hans Brahm and Bronnen when we were at 
WESCHLER: Vaguely. 


FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. He was an actor and a nephew of the 
famous [Otto] Brahm, the theater director in Berlin, and he 
was here a movie director; he had great successes in the 
movies. He did one about a saint in Spain [ The Miracle of 
Our Lady of ] Fatima . The children saw the apparition in 
Fatima of the Holy Mary in the sky, and it was a very famous 
movie in those days . 

WESCHLER: And this is a friend of Carl Ebert. 
FEUCHTWANGER: He is a very good friend, and I met him 
usually there. He lives in Malibu. When he was younger, 
he came once visiting us with his horse. He did a lot 
of horse riding; so one day he came, bound his horse at the 
gate, and came down to see us. [laughter] 
WESCHLER: Did that kind of thing happen often, people 
horse riding up here? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Not often, no. I mean, I saw a lot of horse 
riding here, mostly young girls usually (even more than 
boys) on the hills here around. But not many visitors 
came by horse. Mostly with hundreds of horses in their 
cars, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Today we also wanted to step aside for a bit and 
talk about the financial situation in general. 
FEUCHTWANGER: This was always fluctuating. We were al- 
ways considered so very rich, but it was changing from 
poor to riches all the time. Mostly it came because my 


husband had an enormous income from his books, but only 
when they were sold to the Book-of- the-Month [Club] , 
which brought more than just sale in the stores. And 
the movies paid enormous sums in those days. But we 
didn't know how, and also it was not the rules in those 
days to make special arrangements so you don't have to 
pay the taxes at once. So mostly in those days it was 90 
percent to pay taxes when it was a big income, and my hus- 
band really had to pay those 90 percent taxes. So when we 
got, for instance, let's say $100,000, then he had to 
pay $90,000 for the taxes. And it was usually much more 
than $100,000. 

WESCHLER: Can you talk a little bit about what the sizes 
of royalties were at certain points? 

FEUCHTWANGER: The royalties, I don't know. The royalties 
you never know because they come in a'll the time--it's 
still going on. You never know how much it will be, but 
I know what the movies paid: $350,000 usually for a novel 
It sometimes was more and sometimes was less, but around 
this sum. And then 10 percent the agent got--he got that 
from the real sum, not when the taxes were deducted. So 
sometimes there was almost nothing left. But what was 
going on, what we got, with what was coming in, we never 
thought about buying jewelry or a great fur coat, or my 
husband some special equipment, or a new car even — he 


always went to the bookstores, and I went to the nurseries. 
I bought trees and I said, "Trees you need for making 
paper." [laughter] And he was always climbing up and 
down the ladders at the antique bookstores. And then we 
bought a lot more land around the house, not because we 
needed so much — we knew you cannot take it with you--but to 
have more privacy and not to have too much noise around; and 
also my husband was also mostly afraid somebody would build 
in the neighborhood around, and this makes for a year 
noise, every new house. So we rather bought the lots around. 
And also television and radio and parties, everything 
what makes noise. Now I can go around the whole garden 
without anybody even seeing me with all those trees. My 
husband was always proud when he said it took a whole 
quarter of an hour to go around his property, [laughter] 
up and down the hill, you know. We had a little path 
with stepping stones so you could even go out in the rain, 
with little bridges bridging the little canyons which are 
there. For him the greatest pleasure was his garden; in 
those days it was so beautiful, I had so many flowers and 
plants, that people even came here who I didn't know, asking 
to look at the garden. It was known. 

WESCHLER: So it used to be that when someone came, not 
only did they see the library, but they saw the garden as 


FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , ja, that's true. I planted also a 
lot of orange trees and fruit trees. I called myself 
always a pioneer woman, because I planted so many fruit 
and orange trees. 

WESCHLER: But all this must have cost a lot of money. 
FEUCHTWANGER: This was not so much. The plants were not 
so bad; to buy the lots was money. But it paid out because 
now it has enormous value. If I had wanted to sell it, 
you know, I could live in great splendor and travel wherever 
I wanted. But I gave it to the university [USC] . 
WESCHLER: But you did mention that you had times when 
your finances were very tight. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, for instance, once a book has been 
bought for a movie — I think it was Proud Destiny --f rom a 
new company. Everything was settled, and they wanted to 
begin. Charles Boyer was already looking forward to play 
Beaumarchais . My husband knew that it was a rather big 
siam he would become, so he gave all the money he had.... 
When people asked him for money, he was always what they 
call a light touch (I think you call it that) . When they 
heard about things like that, his selling a book to the 
movies.... And then was also this thing, the time when 
Arnold Zweig wanted to leave Israel and go back to Germany. 
So he financed all that. And then he had also so many 
brothers and sisters who he had to support. So really 


everything in the bank was gone out by this, and also other 
people here whom he helped, writers and so. And then the 
movie company folded, and the only thing what was left 
was a big bill for the lawyer who made the contract. So we 
were in a very bad situation. We had nothing in the bank, 
and only to pay the lawyer. And then there was something 
else: the mortgage was not all paid for. You had to have 
a mortgage in those days. Finally I didn't know what to 
do, and I got a loan from Mr. Scudder. He did it only.... 
It was impossible to get a loan, even if we had mortgaged 
the house, because it was so far away from the city and 
people who loaned the money said they wouldn't even come 
so far out to see the house. So I only went then to Mr. 
Scudder and asked him for advice. He said he can probably 
find somebody who will make the loan on the house, and that 
he did also. But I thought that he gave the loan himself 
and just didn't want to admit it, because it was im- 
possible to get a loan on a house so far away. It was 
during the war, and there was no possibility, with gaso- 
line and so, to go so far. And this really saved our day. 
WESCHLER: When were the worst times financially for you? 
FEUCHTWANGER: In our whole life, or only here? 
WESCHLER: Here. We've talked about the ones in Europe. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that was the worst one. 
WESCHLER: Were there other ones that were like that? 


FEUCHTWANGER: No, fortunately not. [laughter] It was the 
only — you know, we were really saved by Mr. Scudder. 
WESCHLER: Did Lion ever write under the pressure of the 
need to write for money? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, never. That's what he never did. 
Because he was often asked to do things which would have 
brought much money, and he never did it. Also he has 
been asked to work for the movies, to write for the movies. 
He said he would maybe think of it if he can do it here. 
But they wanted him to go to the studio. And with a 
very big sum--you know, one week was as much as he usually 
earned in a whole year. But he never did that. He said 
that takes too much of his time, and he wouldn't do that. 
WESCHLER: Do you think if he could have done it here at the 
house, would he have liked to work for film? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, he was glad, more or less. He didn't 
want it; he didn't want to say no, so he just said he could 
only do it when he was here. And it would have been im- 
possible to make it here because he was not a movie writer; 
so he couldn't make it. Somebody who is used to write for 
the movies can make a story, but he wouldn't even know what 
was wanted. So he had to work with other people, and this 
was impossible here at the house. 

WESCHLER: Would it be discreet to list the people who he 
did help here in Los Angeles, the writers? 


FEUCHTWANGER: No, I wouldn't.... I only know that he of- 
fered a sum to one writer who later on attacked him in 
the most unkind way. I could even tell you. That was 
Hermann Kesten , who lived in New York. Somebody, a friend 
of his--I think it was Ludwig Marcuse--told my husband 
that he is in bad financial shape, so my husband wrote him 
as tactful as he could, that he heard about his situation 
and if he could lend him something. Then Kesten wrote 
back that he doesn't need anything. But later on, when 
my husband died, Kesten wrote that Lion was the ugliest 
man he had ever seen. That was his necrologue. And 
Hermann Kesten himself is not a very beautiful man. 
[laughter] But he is very charming. I met him here again 
during the German semester here at USC. Professor 
[Cornelius] Schnauber, who directed the whole thing, in- 
vited me for dinner and thought it would be a great 
pleasure for us to see each other again, [laughter] But 
I must say, if he hadn't done this thing, I would have very 
much enjoyed his company, because he and his wife are very 
charming. He's very amusing, a little sarcastic, but we 
would have gone along famously if it wouldn't have been 
for this what happened. But I cannot understand this kind, 
what they did. I think, what I told you already before, 
I think that something has to do with the secretary in 
Europe, that there was some gossip or so, because he was 


also in Sanary. 

There was another writer here, with the name of 
[Friedrich] Torberg. He's a Viennese writer, and we didn't 
even know--my husband, I'm sure, had no remembrance of ever 
meeting him. And he wrote a book, kind of caricatures about 
people [Parodien und Post Scripta ] . And he wrote about my 
husband as if it was--I have to translate it once for you; 
it's in German — it sound absolutely as if it would be anti- 
Semitic: about my husband who always writes just in time the 
thing which would be expected of him, you know, just to make 
money. Of course, he wrote about the time because he thought 
it important to be a witness to the times. But this Torberg 
writes it as though he did it only to make money with it. 
And it was just the contrary because my husband would have 
made much more money if he hadn't always spoke about his 
convictions, about what he thinks about communism, for 
instance--it didn't help very much. [laughter J And if it 
hadn't been a Jew himself who wrote that, everybody would 
have thought it's anti-Semitic. [pause in tape] 
WESCHLER: You just brought up the library. Of course, 
that's something we should talk about. Was it when you 
had finally established yourself at this house here that 
he began to collect books again? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, that's true. He began already a little 
bit in the other house — we had some shelves already in 


the other two houses — but the real library began here. 

WESCHLER: It's hard to imagine that there was a time as 

early as thirty years ago when you could have put your 

library on a couple of shelves. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja . But it was not even a couple of shelves; 

it was in the pocket — in the pant pockets you could have 

put it. [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Well, continue: how did the library develop? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, you know, he was known as a collector. 

He asked for catalogs from the big houses in London and 

Holland and Switzerland and New York. And he wrote to 

those people to send their catalogs. And also there was 

one bookshop here which had antique books, and that was 

Dawson's. It was the last house on Wilshire: I think 

it was the corner house at Wilshire and Grand downtown. 

It was a funny little house which had on one side a 

painted wall. I don't know how that comes; there was a 

painting on the wall. The house before was already 

torn down, and this must have been left, the mural or so. 

The house was very small and very decrepit. And there he 

had his books. It had several stories. 

WESCHLER: Mr. Dawson? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Mr. [Ernest] Dawson. He was an Englishman, 

and he knew all about books. He was really full of antique 

memories and books. He was so pleased with my husband 


when he came the first time: first of all, he knew all 
the books which my husband had written, and then, that 
my husband would be his customer. My husband had really 
the run of the house when he came. He usually called my 
husband when he had a new shipping here; they came some- 
times from auctions in England or from auctions when 
people who had libraries had died. So Lion was always the 
first he asked to come. There was a ladder, and my 
husband climbed up and down the ladder, and he even took 
a photo of my husband in his shop. I think he was in 
his prices always very reasonable because he was so 
glad to know somebody who understood those things. 

Oh, there were funny things which happened. Once 
he called my husband that he has a beautiful collection of 
travel books, eighteenth century or so, even older, and 
all illustrated and leather-bound [John Pinkerton's General 
Collection of the Best and Most Interesting Voyages . . . ]. 
My husband came right away — I brought him there — and it was 
beautiful. My husband wanted to take them right away 
with him in the car. 
WESCHLER: A whole collection? 

FEUCHTWANGER: A whole collection. It's very thick--I 
have to show you — thick books and a whole row on the shelf. 
But he said, "No, you can't do that. We first have to 
clean the books. We have to polish them and oil them" 


(whatever it is; I think it's called saddle soap when you 
clean books) . "So as it is you cannot take it with you; 
I will send it by parcel post." Ja. And it didn't come, 
and it didn't come, and it didn't come. And we thought 
it couldn't take so long to oil the books. So my husband 
finally — or the secretary finally asked and said, "You 
know, we didn't get the books." And then he looked in his 
post book and said it has been sent long ago. They didn't 

One day, the bell rings. I opened the door, and a 
lady was there, and she asked for my husband. "I heard that 
your husband is collecting books. Do you think that he has 
lost those books?" Her son (or a man) brought whole pack- 
ages of books down to our front door. She said, "You 
know, these books my husband found on the street, just 
before Christmas. We came home from buying Christmas gifts, 
and there was a terrible thunderstorm here on Sunset, 
where it goes down, you know, before it goes up here. And 
there was lying this enormous package before him in the 
middle of the road. He said, 'There could be an accident 
with somebody hitting this package; I better take it with 
me.' So he took the package in the rear of his car, and 
then he came home. But with all the excitement of Christmas, 
he entirely forgot about it. Then, after Christmas, by 
chance, he opened the rear of the car and found this package. 


The rain had washed off the address and everything, from 
where it came and everything." So she said she heard 
about a Mr. Feuchtwanger who was a writer and lives on the 
hill over there, and maybe, because he is a writer, maybe 
he is collecting the books. And that's why she came here. 
And those were the books. 
WESCHLER: Were the books damaged? 

FEUCHTWAl^GER: No, the books were not damaged; they were 
very well — Dawson, when he treated books, it was well done. 
And apparently this man got them in time into his car; [he 
did] not even dry them, but they dried out in his car. But 
by chance he all forgot about it even. The parcel post 
must have had the door opened, or it opened by itself, and 
the package fell out. But isn't that a chance? You wouldn't 
believe it: if you read that in a book or in a novel or in 
a film, you would say those things cannot happen, that by 
chance somebody knew or heard that my husband is a writer 
and collects books and that he was just the one who passed 
in the rain. 

WESCHLER: Do you remember any other incidents with Mr. Dawson? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, I only know that he always said, "You are 
the first and you have first choice." The same was also 
with book dealers in other countries : they always sent 
telegrams, and even by telegram they gave him the titles of 
the books they had, of rare books, so he had the opportunity 


to buy them before the auction. Everybody knew that a 
private person has no chance in an auction; it is only 
the dealers who could get the big deal. So they gave 
him the opportunity to buy beforehand. Sometimes it was 
much more, he paid more than came in by the auction. 
But also sometimes he was lucky and got the most rare 
things. And the other thing was also that sometimes he 
thought this book he owned before. In his library in 
Germany, and in France, he had no bookplates in the books, 
so he thought some of the books were already before in 
his library. And he bought them again--he was very glad 
to have them again. 

WESCHLER: What percentage of the books did he get from 
Dawson's compared to the other places? Would you say 
a large portion of the books came from Dawson's? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it was a large portion, but then 
Dawson died. His sons now have one of the greatest book- 
shops here in Los Angeles, but they have discontinued antique 

There was another story which I think I told you 
once. One big house was the Rosenthal house--didn ' t I 
tell you about the family Rosenthal? 

WESCHLER: I'm not sure you told us on tape, so you better 
tell it again. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja . There was in Munich a house on Karolinenplatz, 


That was one of the best parts of Munich, one of the older 
parts, but very beautiful, all built by King Ludwig I. 
It is a round place, and all the houses built in the 
place are with columns. Ludwig I was a kind of aficionado 
of Greek architecture. He had also another big place 
which was called the Konigsplatz. There is the Propylaen 
and the museums, the Glyptothek. 
WESCHLER: Neoclassical. 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, it's not neoclassical, it's real clas- 
sical. Neoclassical is not very good, but he really did 
it the same as--it was all the famous architect, [Leo 
von] Klenze, who also built those houses. And this place 
was also in this style. And in the middle of this place 
is a big column, like the Egyptian columns. 
WESCHLER: Obelisk. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Obelisk, ja. And this obelisk has been 
put there, made of cannons of Napoleon, because it was in 
remembrance of the 30,000 Bavarians who died in the Russian 
war of Napoleon. This is also a fantastic place, where 
everything is full of memory, a very beautiful place, and 
in one of those houses was living a man with the name 
of Rosenthal. He was known as a book collector and also 
a dealer of antique books. There were no shops. There 
was only one window, and this window was clad out in red 
velvet, and in it was one big book, a kind of Bible or 


so, with illumination, those beautiful gold and blue 
paintings (the first cipher was always in this 
illumination) . And this one book was always lying 
there. When somebody went in and asked Mr. Rosenthal 
how much this book costs, then he said, "It's not for 
sale." He couldn't separate himself from his own 
books. He didn't sell the books. I don't know, but 
he was very rich. So I always said that he is the 
same as Austria. It was always said of Austria, "Tu 
Felix Nube" : that means Austria or its monarchs were 
so rich because they always married very rich princesses, 
from Spain or so. Austria became a big empire because 
of the marriages. 
WESCHLER: They married well. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , and I think Mr. Rosenthal also 
married well; it couldn't be otherwise. I was once 
in his house, because he was related with my parents 
(I don't know with which one; it must be a very far- 
away relations) . There was a birthday or something, 
and my parents took me when I was a child, took me 
with them, and I saw the interior with all those 
books. And I saw Mr. Rosenthal, who looked like 
Spinoza, like the picture I have seen of Spinoza, with 
a little thin beard, you know, Spanish, and his eyes — 
he didn't see in the world; he looked inside, I had the 


feeling. He didn't see what was before him. And he was 
a real scholar. That was the impression I had, and I 
was much in awe of him. So you see, I remember this one 
visit when I was a child because it was so impressive. 

And he had several sons. When the Nazis came, they 
all left. He probably had already died. Because we were 
in Berlin I don't know more about it. So they left and 
they went into different countries, one to Switzerland, 
one to England, and one to America. And they were also 
dealing with my husband. And the one in Switzerland came 
sometimes here; he was Dr. Erwin Rosenthal. He's a 
friend of Pia [Gilbert] also. He made a lecture at UCLA 
about Picasso, and he had also a play performed at UCLA 
or a reading of his play. And then we met and he said, 
"I would like to come again to your house and see the 
library again." So he came and he saw this "last-hand" 
edition of Goethe's [complete works], and he said, "This 
Mr. Feuchtwanger bought from me. I'm very proud of it. 
Can I buy it back?" And this was absolutely for me like 
ghosts, where I heard his father again. "I don't sell." 

WESCHLER: Did you sell? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, it's still there! [laughter] Oh, he 
also didn't expect me probably to sell it again. 
WESCHLER: That brings up an interesting thing I wanted to 


ask you. Just in general, which are the volumes in the 
library which you prize the most? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I wouldn't prize anything, because I 
am not an expert and so. 

WESCHLER: Well, let's say what did Lion prize? 
FEUCHTWANGER: But I think the incunabula are the most 
valuable books. There are twenty- four incunabula there. 
And there is also this Goethe "last-hand," because I 
think it's the only complete edition of this old "last- 
hand" Goethe. And then there is one book also which is 
written by hand, which is by Pope Innocent III, who lived 
about 1200. And he wrote about Flavius Josephus. So those 
are probably the most valuable books. 

WESCHLER: Which ones did Lion cherish the most when he 
got them? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think he liked the Nuremberg Chronicle 
the most. 

WESCHLER: How did that come about? How did he get that? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I don't remember. Maybe his secretary would 
know. It was always in the catalogs, you know. And it 
was always very exciting when he ordered from the catalog, 
when he looked through.... The catalogs were very ex- 
pensive. One cost twenty-five dollars, in those days 
already. But he never had to pay for it because he was 
such a good customer. But to look through the catalog and 


to choice and to order, that was very exciting always, even more 

exciting than when the books came--because the expectation 
was so great. And sometimes when they came it was a 
great surprise that it was even better than expected. 
Sometimes he was a little disillusioned, but most times 
he was very happy about it. And then immediately he 
began to put them in the shelves. All the shelves up- 
stairs, I stained them myself because I wanted the right 
color. No painter could do it right for me. And when he 
was in New York for the Proud Destiny , for the Book-of- 
the-Month Club--he had to shorten it because it was too 
long (and it has gained a lot by this shortening) --and 
during his time in New York, I had upstairs made also 
bookshelves. There had been all kind of old dishes, you 
know, antique dishes and vases and jugs, whatever I found, 
but no books. So I said, "Now you have room for your 
books." But it didn't last long, and they were all full 
again. One after the other, the antique things had to go 
out, you know, [laughter] The vases and dishes and so. 
WESCHLER: Gradually all the walls became filled with books 
here . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , everything is filled. I said always 
it's the best wallpaper, [laughter] First there was only 
what is here. Those two shelves were the only thing which 
was in the house. 


WESCHLER: We're talking in the German classic room of the 
shelves which have the Goethe on them and the modern 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. One [side] is the moderns. For 
instance, there is Thomas Mann, who brought himself his 
Doktor Faustus when it was published the first time 
(usually the first book comes always by plane; it came 
from Germany and was printed in German) . And he wrote, 
"To Lion Feuchtwanger , who also still writes in German, 
from castle to castle." 

WESCHLER: I just wanted myself to note for future people 
what it's like to go through the library and how the tour, 
when one does it with Marta, always climaxes with the 
Nuremberg Chronicle upstairs, and how Marta pulls the 
Chronicle out — it's a very, very heavy thing — and just 
loads it over to the desk, where there are these four 
wonderful flat stones that are piled up [to support the 
turned pages] so the binding won't bend. They're piled 
up, and we go through the volume very slowly, and there's 
a running commentary that goes along--that ' s always the 
climax. But some of the other things that are shown in 
the times that I have been here with you include the 
Spinoza edition.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, the first edition of Spinoza, the very 
first, and this is a special edition because it is — it 


must have been the very first book which came out, and there 
is a refutation written by hand on the first three 
pages. It is all in Latin, of course; I couldn't read 
it, but my husband could read it and said it was very in- 
jurious to [Spinoza] . [laughter] And this is such a 
rarity that many, many times universities of the whole 
world wanted a photostat of it. It is not only unique 
as a first edition, but a first edition in this way. 
WESCHLER: And what's funny there is that you said that 
sometimes you don't send the photostat because you don't 
like to injure the book by opening it so much. . . 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that's true, I cannot do that anymore. 
WESCHLER: ...but you always open it anyway for visitors. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I open it for visitors. I just cannot 
help myself. But I cannot do it anymore for photostat 
because it bends the outside. It's parchment, and it 
can break or so--it's very brittle already. 

WESCHLER: Another highlight of the tour is the Rousseau.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, the first edition of Voltaire in 
seventy volumes. And this has also a whole story. But 
there is another thing which I wanted to say. And there is 
also this collection of newspapers from during the [French] 
Revolution which has been collected by the brother of 
Napoleon, Joseph, who was king of Spain. And this is a 
newspaper which goes from 1792 to 1814, even after the 


defeat of Napoleon, because in 1812 was the Battle of 
Leipzig in which he was decidedly defeated. And this 
is a newspaper which has been bound here also in leather, 
very big — you have seen the whole volume probably, the 
foliant, I think you call it. There is, for instance, 
even the theater, the spectacles, the news, the foreign 
news, the stock market, and the butter price. Everything 
is there, always four pages every day. And most inter- 
esting are the trials, the National Assembly where all the 
trials were: for instance, the trial of the king; the 
trial of the queen; of Robespierre, when he condemned his 
friend Danton to death (and three months later he himself 
has been condemned to death) . The trial of Marie An- 
toinette, and every word she spoke was there, and of her 
sister-in-law and her son, and how when she comes in and 
she's asked how old she is, [she says] thirty-eight years 
old, and she's asked her name, and first she says her 
first name and then she says Capet is her name. She cannot 
say, "the queen." The Widow Capet, she was called, be- 
cause it was the family of the Capetians, who were the 
kings then. There were two families, the Orleans and 
the Capetians. And then--nobody knows that--in a volume 
before, there is the trial of the king, and the king has 
been condemned to death with only a one-vote majority. He 
would never have been condemned to death had it not been 


for this one vote. And this one vote was his own cousin, 
the duke of Orleans, who later called himself Philippe 
Egalite, and whose son became later King Louis Philippe. 
WESCHLER: That's in that volume that you have here, too? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it's all there. 

WESCHLER: And you were going to tell the story of the 
Voltaire first edition also. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ah, yes, the Voltaire first edition is also. 
Voltaire was complaining that he never could be printed in 
France because he was known as antimonarchist, and also 
that he could not go to Paris because he was afraid to 
be arrested there. He was very old already. He lived in 
the south of France, near the Swiss border, and took the 
cure there. But he was not allowed to go to Paris. But 
he couldn't help it, he had to go always. In those days 
in France, his philosophy wasn't known, wasn't printed, but 
he was very famous for his plays. He was the most popular 
playwright in France. And he couldn't help it; he had to go 
every time there was a first night: he wanted to see his 
triumph. So he went clandestinely to Paris. And the doc- 
tor once said, "You cannot go anymore. You are too old, 
and it is too risky to make the long trip." There were 
no trains, you know; he had to go with horse carriage and 
so. But he said, "I have to go." So he went there, and he 
really died after the performance. His nephew was with him. 


And with all his free thinking, Voltaire wanted a Christian 
burial; that's what he said to his nephew. But no priest 
in Paris dared to make a Christian funeral for this heathen 
Voltaire. So the nephew took him in his carriage and set 
him beside him; the dead Voltaire was sitting beside him. 
And he went into the countryside until he found a little 
priest who didn't even know who Voltaire was. And he 
gave him a Christian funeral. 

Voltaire had been a very good friend with Beaumarchais . 
And he had complained that he cannot be printed in France; 
he was only printed in England and some in Switzerland, I 
think. So Beaumarchais promised him that he will print 
him. And I always said I think that was the only time 
that somebody died happily, because for a writer it's 
more important to be printed than to be alive, [laughter] 
And Beaumarchais held his word, but he couldn't do it, 
of course, in France. So he went to Kehl-am-Rhein — that is 
a little town near the Black Forest — and he established 
houses for French printers (he had to have French printers, 
of course). They came with their families, and it was very, 
very expensive. And there he printed all the seventy vol- 
umes of Voltaire. And after he had finished — and I have 
it in the original bindings, all of his thirty volumes in 
leather--af ter he had finished he went back to Paris, but 
he was absolutely broke. He was a rich man before and had 


also a castle — by marriage he had become a count — but 
he couldn't go back into the castle because he couldn't 
afford it anymore. I think his wife had died before al- 
ready. [Earlier] he had helped Franklin, as you know 
probably, to get his loan for the War of Independence. 
So Franklin heard about that he was now in very bad 
straits and wrote him and said, "You helped me to get 
the loan for the War of Independence. Now I hear that you 
are not well off. Could I help you? We have still not 
finished the war and we need some arms. Maybe you can 
send us arms." So Beaumarchais made money with arms. 
Also it was difficult to get money from the Americans, but 
from a lender he got it in the meantime; so at least he could 
go back in his castle. 

But he wasn't very long in his castle when the French 
Revolution broke out. The soldiers of the Revolution 
went in all the castles because they heard that the king 
wanted to make a counterrevolution, that he got arms from 
his brother-in-law, the emperor of Austria, and that all 
the aristocrats had in their cellars arms. So they went 
from one castle to the others and really, wherever they 
found arms, they arrested the owners of the castles and sent 
them into the Bastille, where they were finally executed. 
So they came also to Beaumarchais, into his castle, right 
away into the cellar to look for arms. But what they saw 


there were only books of Voltaire, and since Voltaire 
was the god of the Revolution, so they saved the life 
of Beaumarchais. And I always say that was proof that the 
word is more powerful than the sword. 


SEPTEMBER 15, 1975 

WESCHLER: We're doing a little oral history tour of 

the library. 

FEUCHTWANGER: To go back to Goethe's "last-hand": it is 

said that ours is the only complete edition because most 

of the book dealers have separated it into two parts. 

The reason for that is that at the end there is the first 

edition of the second part of Goethe's Faust printed for 

the first time. So the dealers usually sold the first 

edition of Goethe's Faust [II] separately and got more 

money because alone it was as much worth as the whole thing. 

Some aficionados, I could say, who were also collectors of 

Goethe's books, said, "Oh, I have that too." But then I 

asked them, "Do you have also so many volumes?" And then 

they counted and said, "No, I don't have so many volumes." 

And that was the reason that they didn't. They never 

realized — they never looked in — that they didn't have 

the second part of Goethe's Faust . 

WESCHLER: When you say the "last-hand" edition, what 

does that mean? 

FEUCHTWANGER: The "last-hand" edition [Ausgabe Letzter 

Hand] means that he himself edited it before his death. 

But it was not even finished when he died; several years 


later only it was finished. He changed very much, and 
edited it, so it has been called "last-hand" because he 
put his last hand on the books. And this expression is 
only for this one edition. 

WESCHLER: Let's talk about some other books. How about 
the Buf fon Natural History [ Histoire Naturelle ] ? 
FEUCHTWANGER : Yes, there is the French [Georges] 
Buffon, a natural historian, and those etchings are all 
hand-painted. It's a very big collection, I think about 
thirty books or so. And every volume is about another 
enemy — another animal, [laughter] 
WESCHLER: Freudian slip? 

FEUCHTWANGER: [laughter] No, it isn't. Really not. 
I was just distracted. For instance, the apes, or the 
birds--every one has a separate book. And the most 
beautiful, I think, is the book about the birds; all 
are hand-painted. And it's really--as often as I have 
seen it, I always enjoy it again, so beautiful it is. 
WESCHLER: There is one book you showed me once which was 
a seventeenth-century theory of evolution already. Some 
beautiful engravings. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, yes, that is also a Bible. It's called 
the Copper Bible by [Johann Jacob] Scheuchzer. All the 
illustrations are made of copper etchings. He was a 
natural historian, but very pious, and he tries to explain 


the Bible in a scientific way (which is very difficult 
because the Bible, as everybody knows, has not been written 
by one person) . But he tried very hard, and he made 
things which are even for his time absolutely new and very 
daring. For instance, he must have made sections of 
animals . 

WESCHLER: Dissections. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Dissections, ja. And he shows how an animal 
is developed in the womb, and [the same] even with chil- 
dren; the egg, the fetus, and all those things, he shows. 
And it must have been rather forbidden in those days to 
do this. And this is all in copper etchings. But he was so 
pious that it seems to me that he was not suspected be- 
cause maybe nobody looked into the book when he had it 
illustrated. He didn't illustrate it himself; he wrote 
the text, and he selected the best copper artists. And 
then, all of a sudden, he made a new experience. When 
he was very tired, he made a walk and saw workmen digging 
in a quarry. They brought out some stones, and he found 
those intriguing. He said to the man, "If you find a bigger 
one, bring it to me." So they found a big plate, and 
there were some scratches on it, and they said, "We bring 
it to the nut; he even pays for it." And when he saw that, 
he was out of his mind, because it was the first fossil 
he ever saw. They had found fossils beforehand, but 


they couldn't explain what it was. Nobody knew then 
what it meant, and he was the first one who could ex- 
plain what it was. It was a big fossil with 
all the vertebrae. And he thought that it 
must have been — he thought it is a human being. And 
he made a verse out of it, he was so excited. He 
called it "The Old Sinner," what they had dug out. He 
called it an "old sinner" because, for instance, if he 
hadn't been a sinner, he would be in heaven and not 
having to be dug out of a quarry, [laughter] The verse 
is very difficult to translate into English, but it's 
very funny because he called the whole thing "a scaffold 
of a human being" (it would be in translating). ["Be- 
trijbtes beingeriist von einem alten sunder/ Erweiche 
stein und herz der alten basheit Kinder"] 
WESCHLER: That's a tremendously impressive book to 
look at. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja, it's really interesting. 
WESCHLER: Some other books that you've shown me on 
tours include a very early edition of Sophocles, a 
Florentine edition, I believe. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but this is interesting because it 
was from the library of Michelangelo. And what is most 
important — it is a tragedy of Sophocles--it has the 
remarks and the notes of Michelangelo's hand in it. The 


first time that he read it, probably, he made some notes 

into it with red ink, also in Latin. 

WESCHLER: And you also showed me one very interesting 

book that showed Rome before they had discovered the 


FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that's something else [Justi 

Rycquius, De Capitolio Romano] . It is a book about the 

Capitol, and it shows the Capitol. First it has a map 

of the most beautiful buildings. That is in etchings 

also, but a steel etching, very fine steel. You can 

see the first edition; it's so clear and fine, with the 

most beautiful edifices in Rome, also the arc of Titus. 

And then comes a picture of the Capitol from outside. 

And there he shows the Castor and Pollux temples, the 

three columns, the [Septimus] temple and the temple of 

Vespasian. And in the middle you see a kind of morass, or 

what you call it... 

WESCHLER: ...swamp. 

FEUCHTWANGER: ...swamp, yes. There is water in it, and 

you can see horses drinking from the swamp. Nobody knew 

in those times that underneath the swamp were three 

layers of antique Rome, and that in fact it was the 

Forum from which the horses drank their water. It was 

before it has been excavated. So this is unique, of course, 

because in those days there were no photos and nobody 


would know how the Forum looked before it was discovered, 
[laughter] And there is another thing: on the Capitol, 
there is a little corner where white smoke comes out. 
And it was known (it is known also now) that when they 
elected a pope — it was called the conclave where they 
were together — the cardinals went together and were closed 
in for the election (that's why it's called conclave). 
When they had decided on a pope, white smoke came out 
from the Sistine Chapel; and when they were not decided 
yet, it came out black smoke. And the whole population was 
waiting on the place of St. Peter to see what kind of 
smoke comes out, to know if they have now a new pope. And 
it seems as if this artist who made the etchings liked 
that so much that he put this smokestack (or whatever you 
call it) on the Capitol, where it has nothing to do. But 
this makes the value of the book, because it is like a 
coin which has been miscast, or a stamp which has been 

WESCHLER: Are there any other books that you would like 
to mention in particular, to alert our future readers? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, there are so many. 

WESCHLER: I mean, somebody who just walks into this 
library will be so astounded just by the mass that he 
won't know which individual volumes to look at. Which 
would you recommend if you were here? 


FEUCHTWANGER : You mean from the 35,000 books, I have 

to choose? 

WESCHLER: How about the Chronicles , for instance, the 

Holinshed Chronicles ? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I just wanted to say that. There are 

the Holinshed books. [Rafael] Holinshed was a historian, 

and Shakespeare used his history studies for historical 

plays. They even said [ours] is the one which Shakespeare 

used himself, but I have no proof of that. For other 

things I have proof. 

For instance, there is a first edition of Jean 
Jacques Rousseau, Treatise on the Inequality of Human 
Beings [ Discours sur 1 ' origine de 1 ' inegalite ] , and 
this is from the library of Benjamin Franklin. He got 
it from Beaumarchais, who gave it to him when he left 
Paris after he got the loan for the War of Independence. 
This is a first edition of the Inequality of the People. 
There is also an etching, a steel etching of "The Return 
of the Savage," it is called, and there is written, "Jean 
Jacques Rousseau, citoyen de Geneve" inside. 
WESCHLER: You also have a first folio of Shakespeare, I 

FEUCHTWANGER: There is one volume of Shakespeare, yes. 
It is The Tempest and some other plays, and it is the only 
folio which exists, the first and only folio which exists-- 


never before printed in folio, it says inside. 
WESCHLER: And in addition to that, something which I 
enjoyed was an edition of Ben Jonson's plays. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, there are two volumes of Ben Jonson 
plays. He always used to have his actors printed on the 
first page of the play. And there is one play which is 
called Rome, and the actors are [Richard] Burbage and 
William Shakespeare (written in two words: "Shake-Speare" ) . 
There is this funny story, because so many people thought 
for a while that Shakespeare didn't exist, that it was 
[Francis] Bacon who wrote the plays, that even Mark Twain 
found this very questionable, and he said, "Of course it 
wasn't Shakespeare. It was his brother." [laughter] 
WESCHLER: How about other books that you would like to 
mention before we move on? 

FEUCHTWANGER: There are also first editions of [Charles] 
Darwin [The Descent of Man (2 volumes) , and The Expression 
of the Emotions in Man and Animals] , and a first edition of 
Darwin's [grand] father [Erasmus], who wrote his natural 
history in verses [ The Botanic Garden ] . This book has 
beautiful steel etchings by William Blake, the mystic 
painter, and the steel etchings are very interesting. There 
is this famous vase which is really a beautiful etching. 
And [Darwin] writes also in his natural history about the 
place of this vase. It's a Greek vase. Shall we look at it? 


[pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: We've just gone and looked at the book, and it's 
the. . . 

FEUCHTWANGER: ...Portland Vase. It's very famous. I 
should have remembered the name, [laughter] 
WESCHLER: Are there a couple of other books that you'd 
like to mention just in passing? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, there are so many. There is also a 
composition of Benjamin Franklin. That was also a very 
funny story. One day a very rich man [Cyrus Adler] here 
called my husband and said, "I want you to come to my 
house and try out with me my new Chinese cook." And my 
husband, who liked Chinese food, was very willing to come. 
But this was a ruse*, because when we came to this house, 
there was a big room, and there was a podium, and on 
the podium were sitting [Gregor] Piatigorsky with three 
violinists. And the owner said that they are playing 
now a composition by Benjamin Franklin. Then he said how 
he came to this composition: after he has read the book 
Proud Destiny (by Lion Feuchtwanger about Franklin in 
Paris), he took a plane and went to Paris, and he found 
this composition which has been the first time discovered 
in 1941 and printed in 1946 [ Quartetto a 3 Violini 
con Violoncello , facsimile edition by Daniel Jacomet] . 
He acquired it and brought it here. And now he will 


play it, have it played by Piatigorsky to Lion Feuchtwanger . 
[pause in tape] He wanted to give it to my husband; 
they played it for him, and then he told us how he came 
to it. And we were very pleased, of course. 

Then one day, Mr. Vern Knudsen (who was chancellor 
of UCLA) called me and said, "You have to come with me." 
Oh, I have to tell you: after the concert, everybody wrote 
his name in it, and Piatigorsky wrote, "We played it for 
the first time and probably for the last time." But 
he was mistaken, because long afterwards, when Vern Knudsen 
was for a short time chancellor of UCLA, he called me and 
said, "You have to come with me to the concert, to 
Schoenberg Hall." I said, "Why do I have to?" "Oh," 
he said, "They are playing something by your friend." 
"Oh," I said, "By Ernst Toch?" Then he said, "No, a much 
older one. And I pick you up." Then he came and picked me 
up, and on the corner here, around the bend, he told me, 
"You know, I wanted to tell you a surprise: we are 
playing a composition by Benjamin Franklin. Your husband 
wrote this book Proud Destiny , and I have read it, and I 
know that it has to do with Franklin, so I wanted you to 
come with me to the concert. They are playing it for the 
first time here, and maybe everywhere, at least in America." 
And it had a great success. It is not of great value 
musically, but very pleasant. It is a minuet in the way 


of Mozart. Just before, they had played something very 
modern, and this was not so well accepted or received, 
so when they played this piece of Benjamin Franklin, the 
success was great. And Mr. Walter Arlen, from the L.A. 
Times , who wrote the review, came to speak with Vern Knudsen 
and me, and then Vern Knudsen asked him, "Do you know 
that Mrs. Feuchtwanger has a facsimile in her library?" 
Then Arlen said, "Of course. I have seen it there." And 
the next day he wrote in his review, "And then they played 
this charming piece by Benjamin Franklin; the facsimile 
reposes in the Feuchtwanger Memorial Library." That makes 
me very proud, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Okay, we can always mention other individual 
volumes later. I wanted to get to some general questions 
about the library and how it grew. What were the general 
approaches that Lion had about the library? Was he inter- 
ested in all books, or did he have particular areas that 
he developed at different times? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He began first, to save time, to order 
books which he needed for his research, for his novels. 
Upstairs in his study, there are two shelves which are 
always occupied by the research or by the books he needed 
for the novel he just was writing. And when he had fin- 
ished this book, when he wrote another book, then every- 
thing had to go out; and the shelves for the new book, for 


the new research, have been filled out. Of course, he always 

had beautiful books and antique books — his favorite antique 

writers, and medieval writers, and also modern writers. 

But there was a general trend to have the books which he 

liked to have instead of going to the libraries and losing 

so much time. Maybe it was just an excuse for himself, that 

it saves time — he just wanted the books. He could have 

had those books also in cheaper editions, not always in 

first editions. But in a way, also, around his books, 

what they say in Europe, he was bitten by the bug; when 

he got those catalogs, he just ordered everything he wanted 

to have, and that had nothing to do with his work. 

WESCHLER: When he was working on, say, the book about 

Rousseau, and he was doing research reading Rousseau, was 

he actually reading those first editions for his research 

purposes, or did he get...? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, not always. [laughter] I would say that 

as much as he could, he bought cheaper editions and had 

the beautiful editions only for enjoying them in the shelves. 

He wouldn't have used it all the time. 

WESCHLER: Were there different phases when he concentrated 

on different types of books, or did the whole library 

develop. . . ? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, it was just when he got those catalogs, 

he looked them through, perused them, and ordered what he 


liked to have--if the price was payable. You know, 
sometimes the things were — one book cost $3,000 or 
$4,000, so he hesitated a little bit. And once he could 
have bought a Gutenberg Bible; it was offered to him right 
after the [Second World] War, by a soldier. But he 
didn't dare because he had a feeling that it had been 
stolen somewhere in Germany. But you know it was a 
great temptation, a real Gutenberg Bible. 

WESCHLER: He was offered by a soldier here at the house? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , ja, here. He didn't have the Bible 
with him, he just came and said he knew that my husband 
is collecting books and he could have for him the 
Gutenberg Bible. But my husband said, "I don't think I 
would be interested in it." 

WESCHLER: Can you just name some of the international 
book dealers he mainly dealt with. 

FEUCHTWANGER: The Rosenthals were international because 
they were in every country. Another one is called Erasmus 
[Antiquariat en Boekhandel] in Holland; and also in Switz- 
erland there is an Erasmus, which has nothing to do with 
the other. Then many, many, very good booksellers were 
in England, in London. Of course, I can find that out when 
I look at the bills which are still there. 

WESCHLER: The bills do exist so we can look at them? Were 
there fellow book collectors here in town who came to look 


at the library? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I wouldn't know about it. You know, we 
were in the sticks for a long time. We only developed 
a little bit some cultural things since we have the free- 
ways. It's absolutely true. Everybody was so far 
away from everything, and there was no center here; it was 
a conglomeration of little villages, or little cities, 
with no center. And only the freeway made it a kind 
of — the Music Center and County Museum [of Art], so that now 
it has some centers. But it isn't very old, this kind of 
cultural consciousness, I should say. 

WESCHLER: Were there people here in the Palisades who came 
to look at the library frequently, rather than just to 
see it once? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Only once. A woman wanted to come in with 
great masses. But I said, "I cannot have too many people 
at once; the most is twenty-five persons." Then they 
were not interested; they wanted to come all together. 
They were more interested in the house, I think, than in 
the library. 

WESCHLER: Did you let students come before it was given 
to use? Were there students who came from the university? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No. Before, it was my private house. 
WESCHLER: I mean, at the time it was your private house, 
were there people who you didn't know at all who you let 



FEUCHTWANGER: No, I was not in the mood to have anybody 
here. It was too soon after my husband's death. 
WESCHLER: I mean during Lion's life, were there people 
who came? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, there was no time for that, you know; 
he was working. He needed the library for his work, and 
there was no time. There were some friends who came, but 
he never made any guiding tours like I do . He showed 
sometimes a new, what he just new found, had newly acquired, 
but nothing of the sort--he was not even thinking about 
that. Nobody was even thinking about looking at the books. 

When I gave the books to the university there was an 
opening, and in every room was a librarian to watch them. 
You wouldn't believe what people take with them. I lost 
a lot of very important things because I didn't believe 
that it could happen. For a while I had students who 
were allowed to work here when they made their doctoral 
dissertation about Feuchtwanger , and many, many books have 
disappeared--and also were much damaged because they took 
them out on the top. Those books are very heavy with 
leather bindings, so they broke off the rim of the books. 
WESCHLER: The spines. 

FEUCHTWANGER: So the head librarian said I shouldn't let 
anybody touch any book anymore. And they didn't want.... 


Even when they make their doctoral dissertations now, 
there is a special room upstairs. And they write down 
what they need the next time, and my husband's secretary 
or I take out the books and put them in the room. But 
they are not allowed to go around and take the books 
out, because the damage what they did cannot be repaired. 
It's more or less a museum, you know; it's not a library 
for use, a usable library. 

WESCHLER: As long as we're talking about this now, we 
might as well just do all of the rest of the things we 
wanted to talk about with the library today. First of 
all.... [pause in tape] You had one other thing you wanted 
to mention first? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, for instance the Nuremberg Chronicle 
is also in the Huntington Library, but they don't show 
it. People cannot use it or touch it. It's open with 
one picture in it, behind glass in a special case. And 
I saw the same also in Prague in the State Library. It 
was also like a pulpit where there was only this one book 
but also covered with glass. So you can imagine--and I 
show it to everybody who comes. So I shouldn't even do 
that. I do it always with a bad conscience, because even 
when I only use it, just turning the leaves, it breaks 
on the angles. And the leaves get brown when they are 
used too much, just from the touch of skin, you know. 


So I shouldn't even show them when I do it. 
WESCHLER: I beg you not to stop because you bring great 
joy just showing it. Okay, as long as we're talking about 
this today, let's talk about how the library came to USC. 
FEUCHTWANGER: There is not much to say. Mostly it was 
Professor [Stanley] Townsend, who was then with Professor 
Von Hofe together in the German department. Professor Von 
Hofe was the dean, and he was a professor there. And he 
used to come when my husband had this lecture from a new 
manuscript for his friends. When he read in German for 
the German-speaking friends, he read himself; but when it 
was in English, he said it's too comical when he reads 
English with his Bavarian accent, so he asked Professor 
Townshend if he would read it. He had a very good voice 
and beautiful pronunciation. So Professor Townshend was 
well acquainted with the library, and he always said I 
should give it to USC. I had the intention to give it to 
the university, but my decision to have it for USC was 
mostly on his intensity. 

WESCHLER: You once mentioned to me a reason that you didn't 
give it to UCLA. . . . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. Another reason was also that in those 
days there was this loyalty oath; maybe I didn't know 
exactly what happened, but anyway I heard that in USC 
they didn't ask for the loyalty oath and at UCLA every 


professor had to take the loyalty oath. I know that for 
many people it was difficult because even if they had only 
had in their student years some interest in communism and 
maybe heard some lectures or so, they were considered Com- 
munists. If they would have taken the loyalty oath, they 
would have been accused of perjury because even that they 
had once only an interest, just wanted to know what's all 
about, without being more than interested.... So they had 
to leave UCLA. And I didn't like that. But then later on 
I heard that UCLA had to do it because they were the state 
university (it was not the free will of the chancellor or 
so) . But it was very decisive for me because I disliked 
this kind of loyalty oath very much; every professor had to 
take an oath anyway when he became professor. 
WESCHLER: So it was that coupled with Townsend... 
FEUCHTWANGER: ...with Townsend's intensity, ja. 
WESCHLER: And how did the negotiations proceed? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, that was Mr. Scudder, the lawyer, who 
did all that; I don't even know how it was. He gave his 
service for the interest of the whole idea. 
WESCHLER: And what was the basic arrangement that was 

FEUCHTWANGER: There was not much basic arrangement that 
was made . 
WESCHLER: Well, I mean what — the actual library itself has 


been given with the building to the university. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, with the building and the grounds — 
that goes all to the university. But it cannot be moved 
out of the building, and it cannot be divided or sold or 

WESCHLER: And will there be someone here at all times 
eventually, or...? 

FEUCHTWANGER: That is up to them. 

WESCHLER: There isn't any stipulation in particular about 
that. I notice one thing that happens is that USC sends a 
gardener over once a month or something. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, several gardeners, usually. But that is 
not for gardening; it is more for a kind of trimming and 
things like that, tree trimmings and so. The real garden- 
ings, they can't do that. And also it wouldn't be enough 
once a month. 

WESCHLER: And outside of that, you're constantly doing the 
day-to-day work. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, and I had always a gardener, but they 
come more to clean the premises and so. 

WESCHLER: One other thing you might detail is the tre- 
mendously exciting events of the Bel-Air fire. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, three times we had a fire here. And 
this so-called Bel-Air fire [in November 1961] came from 
far away, from Bel-Air, and jumped over the freeways until 


it came to Pacific Palisades. But at the same time, there 
was a fire in Topanga Canyon, which is on the other side 
of the house. For three days it was burning, and the flames 
were already below the house, on the one side here in Santa 
Ynez Canyon. I could see them from the rim; they were 
much lower than the house itself. There were even people 
here from Europe, reporters, to see the fire. The ashes of 
the fire were above my ankles. The whole roof was full of 
hot ashes. Fortunately this roof is a tile roof, so it 
was more secure; but houses which had only wooden roofs — 
shingles — they were much more in danger. Also the fire 
insurance is cheaper--! didn't know that--with tiles. The 
sparks came everywhere; even if the fire wasn't right there, 
the sparks came from above. We had watered the whole thing, 
the roof and everything, and the ashes--it was absolutely 
mud: you waded in mud, the water and ashes together. And 
they evacuated the whole library. 
WESCHLER: How did that take place? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, it was like that: by chance [I] dis- 
covered the fire. There was a terrible wind, a Santa 
Ana wind, and there was much noise. And I went out in the 
night--it was about six o'clock or so — and I went out to see 
what the noise was. And it was all those trash cans 
rolling down the street which the wind had driven out from 
the different houses. I even caught some and put them on the 


side because I was afraid somebody could run with the car 
against it. And then, all of a sudden, on the east side 
of the sky, I saw a red light, red clouds, and this spread 
iiranediately, very fast. So I called the [USC] head librarian 
[Louis Stieg] , who lived in Palos Verdes, I called him 

WESCHLER: This was six in the evening or six in the 

FEUCHTWANGER: Morning but still dark. And I called him 
and said that there is fire around, and if he doesn't think 
that the library should be evacuated. Then I called my 
gardener, who was a Mexican and very devoted to me--he 
lived in Santa Monica--and he came right away with his big 
truck and his wife, and they began to pack. I called 
Hilde, the secretary, and we packed all the first editions 
and incunabula in boxes. (I had always boxes with me here, 
because I thought there could be sometimes a fire. The 
whole garage was full of boxes.) We began to pack. And 
then came the head librarian. (He is not here anymore; 
he is now in San Francisco, I think.) He had sent a big 
truck here, and then we began to pack the truck. Then the 
fire department said we have no time--everybody has to be 
evacuated, there is no time to pack — so we just had to throw 
all the books into the truck. 
WESCHLER: How close was the fire at this point? 


FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, it was around the house already. 
WESCHLER: I mean literally how many feet away was the fire? 
FEUCHTWANGER: It was not "feet." It was on the canyon, 
over the canyon on the side. There I saw the bushes burn- 
ing. And it was the hot ashes which were so dangerous. 
WESCHLER: Are you saying like a quarter-mile away, about 
that far, or half a mile? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, nearer than a quarter-mile. You could 
just go down here--you know, there is a little street which 
is only two houses [Lucero Drive] , and then you see down 
into the canyon. 

WESCHLER: And there was the fire. 

FEUCHTWANGER: It was all on fire. And then, what I began 
with is that the Topanga Canyon fire came from the other 
side, and when you looked.... Two days it was burning 
just without any reprieve, but for the first time they used 
those fire planes. 
WESCHLER: With the chemicals. 

FEUCHTWANGER: With f ire-retardant chemicals. I think it's 
a kind of boron--it was not water alone. And that was the 
first time. But at night they couldn't fly. I don't know 
why. They said, I think, there is there is a downdraft, and they 
couldn't see well enough with the flames. But then it 
was thought it was already over, the fire. Nobody was here 
anymore; everybody was evacuated but me. I was looking out. 


I heard over the radio, of course, always what happened; 
and then it said that now it seems that they contained the 
fire. So I was going outside, when all of a sudden I saw 
the flames coming up again--but very fast. It was just 
like an explosion. 

WESCHLER: In the distance, you mean? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Very near. It looked very near. And then 
I went back into the house and turned the radio on, and it 
said that now the fire is so near, it has jumped over 
Mulholland [Drive] — you know, that is the rim road--and 
there is a fire storm going on. You know, the fire creates 
its own storm from the heat, and when there is a fire storm, 
there is nothing you can do but wait until everything has 
burned out. And then this man said, "And now comes the 
fire from Topanga; the flames are already on Mulholland, 
and they are only a quarter of a mile apart; and when 
they meet, then the fire storm goes all over Pacific Pali- 
sades, to the ocean, all down, and the whole Pacific 
Palisades is lost." That's what I heard. It was ten in 
the morning. And then I thought, "Now I have to leave, 

WESCHLER: And everybody else on the street had already 

FEUCHTWANGER: Nobody was there but me. 
WESCHLER: Why were you allowed to be there? 


FEUCHTWANGER: I told the fire department, I said, "I 
don't go away." And they said, "All right, you have to 
wait until we pick you up in the last moment. If it had 
been more people we couldn't do it, but one...." I just 
didn't leave; people with children and so, they had to 

WESCHLER: You and your turtle. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. Then I wanted to call the fire de- 
partment what I shall do, but in this moment the wind 
turned, and all of a sudden I saw the flames going back 
to the other side of the hills. Everything was burned 
out from this side. All around it looked like a moonscape. 
WESCHLER: Which direction are you pointing to? That's west? 
FEUCHTWANGER: That is west, ja, north and west. It 
was all burning, you know, it was just — it was twenty, 
thirty feet from the street, you thought. You know, 
the street where you come up — you must have seen it — it 
was like a moonscape. Nothing was green anymore, was 
standing. And then the wind--sometimes the Santa Ana 
wind changes after three days, so now the wind came from 
the ocean (it was a damp wind which always comes from 
the ocean) , and the whole flames went over the mountains 
back again where they had come from. And, of course, there 
was so much burned already that the flames had no nourish- 
ment anymore. So that was the end of the nightmare. But 


it was just like a miracle that in the last moments the 
wind changed. 

WESCHLER: Was the library damaged in any way? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, I think the heat wasn't very good 
for it. Some of the plants were just shriveled from the 
heat. It was so hot — you can't imagine. When you went out 
on the street it was like in an oven, you go in an oven. 
It was the hot wind from the Santa Ana and the fire together, 
You couldn't even breathe, so hot it was. 

WESCHLER: Were the books of the library damaged from the 
evacuation at all? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, much was damaged and also lost, a lot 
of books. It took four months to bring them back. 
WESCHLER: Where had they been taken? 

FEUCHTWANGER: They were at the university. And the uni- 
versity took the occasion to make a second catalog. First 
it has a name catalog, and then they made also a subject 
catalog there. And with making this catalog, those young 
people who did that were not very attentive, and they 
put everything.... You know, naturally, books which 
were together, also were packed together in the beginning. 
We packed it just how it came. [But when we got it back] , 
there was Buddha beside a cookbook. We had always wrote 
on the box what it was about (mostly not what was inside, 
but in what story it was, you know, the first story or 


second story) . But everything was mixed up. And I think 

Hilda and I, we lost at least everybody ten pounds going 

up and down the stairs. When we had the cases upstairs, 

then the books belonged downstairs. And we couldn't 

have all together, all, the whole thing; so in every room, 

in the middle there were those boxes stacked, and we packed 

them out. But it took four months until we had all the 

books here and in their shelves again. In Europe, it was 

in all the newspapers about this thing. But I didn't 

want so much publicity here. 

WESCHLER: Has that been a problem, publicity? Do you 

generally keep the existence of the library fairly quiet 

for security reasons? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, you cannot find it, you know. If you 

don't know where it is, you--everybody passes with the 

car, because the number is hidden, so near to the edge 

of the street that you don't see it. And I'm very glad 

about that. Most people who come the first time just 

pass us here. 

WESCHLER: As did I. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , ja, everybody. And that's what I want. 

But to my friends, to indicate where it is, I say always 

look out for 505, because it's across the street. When 

you see 505, you just have to cross the street. But I 

don't want that they see my number. 


WESCHLER: And in terms of security, there are no guards 
here at all. It's just you. 

FEUCHTWANGER: No. Only the turtle. But he doesn't 
even bark, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Okay, one other thing that I think should be 
noted is the incredible way in which you take care of the 
library. I mean one never finds dust on those books at 

FEUCHTWANGER: You don't look near enough maybe, [laughter] 
But you know, there was once in a New York newspaper an 
anecdote by the columnist Leonard Lyons. He wrote that 
he was here with other people to see the library — it 
was still during my husband's lifetime--and they all found 
that it's so well kept; people even with their fingers 
went over the rims. And then they asked me, "How do you 
do that, to keep them so clean?" And I said "Lion reads." 

WESCHLER: Thirty-five thousand volumes a day. 
FEUCHTWANGER: But anyway, when books are used, they don't 
get so dusty. 

WESCHLER: Well, there must be an awful lot of reading. 
Okay, well, I think we're running out of tape on this side. 
We'll stop for today. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Still nothing to drink? Isn't it almost 
evening now? 


WESCHLER: This is Yom Kippur and I'm on fast. If I've 
been asking stupid questions, that's why. 


SEPTEMBER 17, 1975 

WESCHLER: We're going to start today with an anecdote 
which takes us back a little bit from where we were before, 
and that concerns the period right after the war was over, 
when they were preparing the Nuremberg trials. I under- 
stand that Lion was asked to be a journalist at that time. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he was asked by a national broadcasting 
company to go to Nuremberg and to write his impressions 
every night during the trial. But my husband refused it. 
He said he cannot do that, he cannot work so fast. They 
told him they have enough reporters — it's not that they 
have to have the news--but [they want] his impressions. 
WESCHLER: Was this an American or a British company? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know. I have to look it up. 
WESCHLER: Okay, we will find out later. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Brecht, I think, says it's an American 
company, the greatest, AP [Associated Press] or whatever it 
was. He was very upset that my husband didn't go. He 
said, "You are the one who could do it. You are also the 
only one who has been asked. Neither Thomas Mann nor 
anybody else has been asked, I have asked Heinrich Mann 
if he would do it, and he said, 'I would do it lovingly, 
but nobody asked me.'" But my husband said, "I cannot 


function; you know that. I am a slow worker, and when I 
have to make my impression, to write down my impression of 
the different kinds of accused and of the people who de- 
fend them, whatever it is, I have to think it over. I 
cannot do it every day; I am a slow worker. I cannot 
function like that." And you see that Brecht wrote it in 
his published Work Journal . It was so important for him. 
He was very angry with my husband that he didn't do it. 
WESCHLER: But he did end up writing an article. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he wrote for the newspaper, for a 
Dutch newspaper [De Groene] ; they asked him also to do the 
same for Holland. And then he wrote an article about it, 
and that is the article about his impression and how he 
came to write about the Nuremberg trial ["The Nuremberg 
Trials: An End and a Beginning" (December 8, 1945)]. 
WESCHLER: Okay, over the weekend I had a chance to look 
at a whole batch of Lion's speeches that you lent me 
primarily having to do with the Jewish situation during the 
war. That led to some questions about his own attitude 
about giving speeches. Did he enjoy giving speeches? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, not at all. He knew that he was not 
looking imposing, he had not a good voice, he didn't speak 
very distinctly — of all those things he was very conscious. 
And he hated to speak before a great audience. But when he 
had to do it, then he accepted it, and like a swimmer, he 


jumped into the water and did it. He wanted to do it right; 
he prepared himself very well, and people were always very 
impressed. Also I, who was very critical always, was 
impressed. You could see he was almost fanatically inclined 
to speak about those things which were very near to him. 
It came out something from him, you know; he had relations 
with the audience. But every time, it was the same thing. 
He had always to make the sacrifice to do it, and to fight 
himself to do that without — they call it in Latin, invita 
Minerva . He didn't like it very much. He did it 
because he had to. 

WESCHLER: I notice from the ones that you lent me that it 
was mostly during the war, having to do either with the 

Spanish Civil War or with the Jewish situation. After 

the war was over, did he do much speaking? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Every time he has been asked, he spoke, for 

the Jewish clubs and for any kind of charity, for the Heart 

Foundation. And it cost him always a whole week to 

decide and to get over his reluctance. But he thought he 

had to do it, and so he did it. It was out of a sense 

of duty. 

WESCHLER: And he continued to do this throughout his time 


FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , he always did it, 

WESCHLER: Did he have any occasion to speak out against 


the McCarthy hearings or the Red hearings? 
FEUCHTWANGER : Oh, he would have been expelled, you know: 
we were not Americans. It was like in a Mauseloch 
("mousehole" ) , [trying] to make himself as little con- 
scious--no, obvious--as possible. Only that nobody would 
know that he exists. That was the only thing he could 
do. He was always in fear that something happened and 
it would be the last of his existence. No publisher would 
have published a book anymore. 

WESCHLER: Did that bother him, that he could not speak 
out against the McCarthy hearings? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He never liked to speak out. That wouldn't 
have bothered him. It bothered him that he wasn't free 
and couldn't say what he wanted. He always said his 
greatest luxury is to say what he wants to say, what 
he thinks. And that he couldn't do. That's why he wrote 
those plays where everything came through but without it 
being proved that it was about the present. 
WESCHLER: A very circuitous kind of presentation. 
FEUCHTWANGER: It was underground work, you can say — 
spiritual underground work, [laughter] [pause in tape] 
WESCHLER: Also around this period that we are talking 
about, after the war. Lion began to be contacted again by 
people who had been in Germany, and his reputation in 
Germany began to be regenerated. Perhaps you can talk a 


little bit about that. 

FEUCHTWANGER: You cannot speak about "reputation," be- 
cause he was an unknown person; nobody ever heard his 
name, mentioned his name, neither in books nor in schools. 
Nobody knew about his name, except very old persons. 
Imagine: it was a very long time from ' 32 or '33, and 
nobody--those who knew him who were his readers, they 
had to leave; even if they were not Jewish, they had to 
leave. Lots of people had to leave, or left, who were not 
obliged to leave. So his name was absolutely unknown. And 
the young people studied what happened before Hitler, what 
kind of authors, what kind of books had been published 
before Hitler came to power. And so they found [his 
books] in some libraries where the books have been over- 
looked (because all of the books have been burned, but in 
many libraries it has been overlooked) — mostly 
in smaller, provincial libraries. [And one man, Wolfgang 
Berndt] , found many people there who had never heard about 

Lion; he went to a publisher and said he would like to 
publish some things by this author which are not known. 
They found out then, very soon. Of course, all the 
publishing houses were created new, and they published my 
husband's books. They didn't have to be translated, so 
they could publish them right away. In America, they 
had to be first translated into English. Berndt wrote — 


that was the first time that he heard about Feuchtwanger ' s 
work. And he read avidly what he could get his hands on, 
and then he went to a publisher at the Greifenverlag, 
Mr. Karl Dietz, and told him maybe they should write 
to Mr. Feuchtwanger, that maybe there is still something 
which has not been published, that he would like to 
bring all those things out, edit them and bring a book 
out of it. So this publisher was very enthusiastic about 
it and gave him the address of my husband, and he wrote 
my husband and asked him if he had some essays or if he 
allows that his former reviews would be collected. And 
it was then called Centum Opuscula --that means "one hundred 
small works." And he went around the whole Germany, all 
the little libraries where he could find something, and 
he found the old critics, more than we ever had, and also 
the critics about him. My husband never collected the 
critics about himself. So he found everything in li- 
braries and collected it, and it is even more than 100. 
But then from the 100 he collected the most interesting. 
And they want also now to make another volume, a second 

WESCHLER: How old was Wolfgang Berndt? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know. I don't know him personally. 
He was a young man. He is now professor in West Germany. 
WESCHLER: Did it move Lion very much that somebody was 


doing this? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Of course he was. But he was just snowed 
under with letters from Germany, people who wanted to know 
him, wanted to read him, who formerly read him, and so; 
and he couldn't answer all of them. But since this one 
went to the publisher, Karl Dietz, so he could answer him. 
He said, "Of course, when you want to do it, just go ahead." 
WESCHLER: Was there any bad feeling with regard to pub- 
lishers who had been forced to cancel his works in 1933? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, they became all Nazis. 

WESCHLER: And did Lion bear them anger and so forth after- 
wards, in terms of later publishing arrangements? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, he knew that in their hearts, they 
were not Nazis. For instance, Rowohlt and all those 
people we knew very well, and many were Jewish and had 
to go out. For instance, S. Fischer was the greatest 
publishing house, and he had to go out from Germany. And 
the others he knew--Kiepenheuer and Rowohlt were his 
publishers in Germany; he knew that they were not Nazis 
but that to stay publishers they had to be Nazis. 
WESCHLER: After the war, did they resume publishing his 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. But not all, because some publishing 
houses didn't exist anymore. For instance, the Drei 
Masken Verlag (the Three Masks publishing house) didn't 


exist anymore. They were also Jewish. That was a big 
Austrian industrialist who owned this publishing house, 
and he had to leave too. He died then. So many died. 
S. Fischer died also. Then there were many my husband 
didn't know. For instance, S. Fischer, his son-in-law 
[Gottfried Bermann-Fischer] took over. He published also 
for my husband in Sweden; he had a publishing house in 
Sweden. He published the [first volume of the] Flavius 
Josephus trilogy. All around Germany they published all 
those books; every book was published in Holland first. 
But then the publisher there has been killed by the Nazis, 
too. He was not even Jewish. 
WESCHLER: This was Querido? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Querido, ja, ja. 

WESCHLER: At this point. Lion was about to start a tre- 
mendously prolific decade, with several novels and so 
forth. The books which he came out with at that time-- 
the Goya book, the Rousseau book, and so forth — were they 
as popular in Germany as his novels had been before the 
war? Did he ever regain...? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Before he didn't have many successes. 
WESCHLER: Well, Jud Suss is the one that.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: He had only three novels before: Jud 
Siiss, The Ugly Duchess , and Success . Yes, there was 
also the Flavius Josephus, the first volume. This has 


been published but almost not distributed because the 

Nazis took over. 

WESCHLER: But was Lion as popular in the fifties in 

Germany as he had been in the twenties and early thirties, 

do you think? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think much more. The editions were 

very high. For instance, the novel Goya has been published 

by seven publishers (one was a luxury edition, and 

then what they called like the Book-of-the-Month, different 

kinds of publishing, and then later several times in 

paperbacks). So it was seven publishers in Germany alone. 

Only one had the rights; they had to buy a license from 

the one publisher who had the rights. 

WESCHLER: So he completely regained his stature. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , ja. Even too much, because it was 

too much at once. It was saturated too much. His books 

were so much, in so high editions, that later on nobody 

needed them anymore. When he didn't write anymore, they 

were all there; it was saturated, [pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: Was this popularity constant then after the war? 

FEUCHTWANGER: After a while, it seemed to me that they 

were influenced by the McCarthy time. Many of the critics 

who were formerly Nazis and still critics all of a sudden 

began to attack him as a Communist. You could only read 

it between the lines, but they wanted to nail him down as 


Conununist. There were many who were great Nazis before. 
Some of the newspapers just--either they didn't know, the 
new editors, or just because they had great names, al- 
ready before the Hitler times, they let them write. And 
some were very vicious. I know one who even wrote two 
different critics about my husband, one for East Germany, 
where he wrote an enthusiastic critic about, for instance. 
The Jewess of Toledo — "We thank Feuchtwanger for this en- 
richment of the German language, and this is one of the 
greatest books that ever..." — and then in West Germany 
he wrote a very denigrating critic where he wanted to 
make him smaller. And this is the same man, but he changed 
his name. It's the same man, because I found out it's 
the same man, but he changed his writing. 
WESCHLER: His pseudonym. 

FEUCHTWANGER: His signature. There are some letters changed, 
you know, but it's the same name. And I found this out 
from a great admirer of my husband's books. He didn't know 
my husband but he came here and visited me. He is a great 
manufacturer of pharmaceutical articles and brings out 
albums of beautiful works of art which have all to do with 
great maladies, or suffering and illnesses in art. For 
instance, the old painters, Dvirer or Rembrandt or whatever, 
there are some of their famous paintings and even some by 
unknown painters in France during the Renaissance, all of 


which have to do something with a sickness. Rembrandt 
made a great painting of the anatomy.... 
WESCHLER: The Anatomy Lesson [of Dr. Tulp ] . 
FEUCHTWANGER: So all those things he brings out in beauti- 
ful editions. That is his hobby. He sent me some of these 
books, and it's fantastic. And then, since he is so in- 
terested in Feuchtwanger ' s work, I wrote him a letter and 
asked him to please find out if this is the same name, 
the same man. 

WESCHLER: Do you remember the name of the critic? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Reiner Reinitzsky, something like that. 
Very similar is the name in West Germany as in East 
Germany. And then he wrote me a letter and said, "Yes, 
this is the same man." And I could have ruined him, you 
know, if I had published that. But you cannot do those 
things, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: You can't. Other people seem to be able to. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. [laughter] [pause in tape] Now, I heard 
that there is great interest again for Feuchtwanger ' s books, 
and they come out all in paperback pocket editions, which 
I am very glad to hear because the books are so expensive 
(for instance, Flavius Josephus was eighteen dollars with 
the thin-paper printing) . So now even all the young 
people can buy the books. And I am very glad about that. 
I heard the next time there will be Jud Suss, Success, 


and The Ugly Duchess , all together. But different pub- 
lishing houses. So it's very good to hear that. And 
of course in East Germany, the books are always more in 
demand than they can print. The publisher wrote me the 
other day even if he would bring out 100,000 copies of 
one book, the next day there would be no more, that they 
are sold out immediately. "But unfortunately we don't have 
enough wood; that's why we couldn't make much bigger edi- 
tions." That's all in East Germany. The whole East also. 
The whole East publishes enormous editions and also very 
beautiful and artistic books of my husband's work. 
WESCHLER: This is also true of Russia? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Also Russia. Russia brought out first 
3,600,000 copies of Feuchtwanger ' s books, and then they 
wrote me that they are now printing the collected works. 
Before, every book had another binding, but now they 
printed the whole collected works in the same bindings, 
[pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: Well, now going back to the period between 1945 
and, say, 1950, a tremendous number of the people who had 
made up this emigre community here in Los Angeles either 
died or left. Just to go through them very quickly, Bruno 
Frank died in 1945.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, they died, more than had left. Werfel 
died, Alfred Neumann died, Bruno Frank died, Heinrich Mann 


died. . . 

WESCHLER: . . . Schoenberg died. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, Schoenberg was--no, later. 

WESCHLER: In '51. But Brecht and Eisler left, and then 

later on Thomas Mann left also. 


WESCHLER: We've talked about most of these. We haven't 

really talked about why Thomas Mann left. 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think he also left on account of McCarthy 

because his daughter didn't want to stay here anymore. 

When Thomas Mann went to East Germany for a celebration of., 

WESCHLER: Some centennial. Schiller...? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, for Schiller, I think. And he had to go 

to Weimar and make a speech there. He wanted his daughter 

to come with him on the ship; he wanted to go by ship and 

write his speech on the ship. And they didn't give his 

daughter the permission here; the passport department 

didn't give her the permission to go. She could have gone, 

but they told her that she wouldn't get a return visa; they 

would give her an exit visa, but no return visa. (They 

did the same with Chaplin. But Chaplin had a return visa, 

if you remember. He didn't go away before he had that. 

And when he was in Switzerland, they all of a sudden took 

it back, which I think is against the Constitution; they 

refuted the reentry visa. ) And so the daughter of Thomas 


Mann couldn't go with him. 
WESCHLER: Which daughter was this? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Erika, the oldest daughter. She was the 
only one who could help him, but she couldn't go with 
him, and he had to go alone and write the speech alone. But 
when she heard that they refused her this reentry visa, 
she said, "If you don't give me this visa, I will publish 
it in the whole world, in all the newspapers of the world." 
She had the first papers to become a citizen, and she re- 
turned her first papers. She was English, because she 
was married with the poet Auden. She said, "I don't want 
to be American when you treat me like that." And then it 
seems to me that they were afraid of scandal, so they 
gave her the reentry visa. But it was too late to go on 
the ship with her father; she had to take a plane. And 
when they both wanted to come back to America, their 
lawyer cabled them that she cannot come back because they told 
him she will have to go to Ellis Island, will be interned 
in Ellis Island. So of course she couldn't come with her 
parents. She went to Canada and came over from Canada, 
and nobody asked her — nobody knew who she was, nobody 
asked, she had her exit visa stamped in the passport, 
so she came in. But from this moment on they didn't like 
to stay here anymore. She said she cannot stay here anymore, 
she doesn't want to stay. She cannot publish, and she cannot 


make speeches anymore (she traveled around to make speeches, 
lectures and so). And she was the favorite daughter, the 
favorite child of Thomas Mann. So finally Thomas Mann 
decided also to go away. 

WESCHLER: Was he equally bitter, do you think, or was he 
mainly doing it for Erika's...? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he was rather bitter. He didn't like 
to go away. He liked his house here, and he liked the 
climate. And he was afraid of the European climate. I 
remember the first year when he went to Switzerland, he 
had a very bad flu and wanted to have some sunshine. So 
he went to Sicily, but there it was very bad weather, too, 
always raining. And he was very unhappy; all the time he 
had to stay home or in bed. And he wrote always to my 
husband that he misses the climate so much. But also in 
Germany he had trouble. They had named a street after 
him in Munich, and they took away the sign because he went 
to East Germany for the speech about Schiller. And that's 
why he went to.... He was attacked in the most vicious 
way. And then he went to Switzerland. First he wanted 
to go back to his house in Munich, but he just couldn't 
stand it. And he died also in Switzerland. But afterwards 
the Germans were sorry about it, and they renamed the 
street and the Heinrich Mann street is around the corner. 
And my husband — in West Berlin a street is named after him, 


in the Walter Gropius section. It's around an open, public 
park with a little lake; so it's called Lion Feuchtwanger 
Way. It's a walk around a park. And in Munich is also a 
street. I have never seen the street in Munich, but I saw 
the plaque at the house where he lived. 
WESCHLER: Another person who left is Salka Viertel. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, she left much later. She left because 
she couldn't live anymore here. It was too expensive. 
So she went to stay with her son [Peter] and took care 
for a while of the children of her son, who is married 
to Deborah Kerr, the famous actress. 

WESCHLER: Well, the question that this all leads up to 
is, how did this affect your and Lion's life? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, we had so many friends here, always 
too many. There were a lot of people still here in Beverly 
Hills, the whole Austrian colony there, most of them, and 
many widows also. There was Massary there, and Lisl Frank, 
and the Marcuses were here. So as long as my husband 
lived, there were very many people here. And then we had 
Professor Von Hofe and Professor Arlt and Professor 
Townsend. They were Americans, but we had also very many 
other American friends. We had still too many friends for 
the good of the work of my husband. 

And when my husband died, I didn't see anybody, I 
didn't want to see anybody. But then I met your grandfather 


[Ernst Toch] after a very long time. We were invited 
for the housewarming at the Toch house [in 1941] . I 
think it was through Brecht that we came there. We didn't 
know him before, only his music (we heard all that when 
he was played at the Hollywood Bowl or so) . And then 
at Minna Coe's house, there was a remembrance concert 
for Korngold, I think. And there I met your grandfather 
and your grandmother, and we were both very happy to 
meet each other again. I said, of course, that I prefer 
his music, [laughter] And then your grandmother Lilly 
invited me, several times, always very graciously. Her 
parties were great always. They had the nicest people, 
you felt at home, and there was very good food. It was 
grand style, what she did, always. And then sometimes 
they played some of the records. It was always for me 
a great sensation to be invited there. I am very grate- 
ful. And this brought me back to life, I would say. 
Because the literary people were not interesting for me. 
There was Irving Stone, but this is another story. I 
have to tell you about Irving Stone once. My single only 
enemy I have is Irving Stone, [laughter] 
WESCHLER: Well, we better have it now, I suppose. 
FEUCHTWANGER: It's a very funny story. There was a big 
party at Robert Nathan's house — and we were already in- 
vited, you remember, in New York at his house. Well, then 


he came here. And my husband...! don't know how it 
came. He never drank, except that he drank a little 
wine with the dinner, one or two glasses, but never more. 
And he never drank liquor; he didn't like cocktails, or 
champagne or things like that. It must have been that 
he was thirsty. Anyway, I never saw him drinking, and 
there he drank a cocktail. But he was not drunk, you 
know; nobody noticed it but I. He was more loquacious, 
and I found that he told things which didn't make much 
sense. We were together. There was Irving Stone and 
Robert Nathan and [James] Cain, you know, who wrote 
The Postman Always Rings Twice (you remember that?) . 
There were those three. And Cain was much more drunk 
than my husband; my husband only was a little bit. And 
then they asked him about his citizenship and when he 
will become an American. And he has said--and I heard 
that; it's true--he said, "I don't know if I want to be an 
American. " 

WESCHLER: Lion said that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja . But he never remembered afterwards that 
he said that. But I saw immediately how they noticed 
that, you know, how Irving Stone noticed it. He put it 
down inside. And later, that was a funny thing what hap- 
pened. During one of the citizenship hearings, I was 
present (usually the wives are not allowed, but I was allowed 


because he was already so ill) , and then the man who made 
the hearings said, "We heard that you said once you don't 
want to be an American." So we knew who had said it because 
Lion never said that before or afterwards. It was only 
then. This was what I told you before: always in his 
back-conscious, subconscious, was this kind of resentment, 
that he was here and so many were left. You know, how 
he saw all those around the block in Marseilles, those 
people who couldn't leave: he never could forget that, you 
know, and it seems to me that this came to his conscience 
in this moment. Because they say children and drunks say 
the truth, and this came out from his subconscious, that 
he resented still that they didn't save more of those who 
had a possibility. And that's why he said it. 
WESCHLER: Could it have also been that he was angry about 
what they had done to people like Brecht and Eisler and 
so forth? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I don't think so. It was just this 
thing. Because I don't even know if it wasn't before 
Brecht and Eisler. I don't think that he — it was al- 
ways in his subconscious as well as mine, always this 
feeling that we were chosen and the others had to stay 
there. And I think that was what came out. But it was not 
understood like that. And it wasn't necessary that those 
people would say that to the Un-American Committee. 


WESCHLER: Did you ever have occasion to see Irving Stone 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that was the funny thing; it had 
even something afterward. After this evening at Robert 
Nathan, he came here for tea in the afternoon. And my 
husband had a very lively discussion with him; he, Irving 
Stone, did so as if he was enormously against communism; 
he attacked my husband in a very vicious way, and also his 
wife, and he was very disrespectful. The funny thing was 
that everybody knew that he himself was very much inclined 
in his youth to communism, like many young people there, 
like Odets and all the people in the thirties. He wanted 
only to prove that he is no more for communism or for Russia 
or so. But my husband was handicapped because his English 
was not very fluent, and he could not in a discussion — 
he could be bettered. He was never good in discussion 
either, because he was not very present of mind. After- 
wards he would have the right word or so. He was a writer; 
he always said, "I'm not a speaker, I'm a writer." So 
he was never very good in discussion, even in his own lang- 
uage, and in English even less. So he was not a match for 
Irving Stone. I was present, and maybe he said things which 
he would have expressed otherwise in his own language. So 
it sounded sometimes stronger than he wanted to. Anyway, 
Irving Stone said, "You are a friend of Stalin, and I don't 


want to have to do anything with you." And he left in 
great anger. My husband couldn't understand that; he thought 
first he was joking. And he accompanied him to the door 
and said, "I hope to see you again," or something like 
that. Anyway, he left in great — as an enemy. And then came 
this hearing, and then we both looked at each other. 
We knew that it could only have been him because we as- 
sumed that Robert Nathan wouldn't do something like that, 
because he always was very friendly to Lion. And then, I 
met [Stone] at a party, at Mr. [Melvin] Branch's. (She 
[Dr. Hilda Rollman Branch] is a psychologist.) 
WESCHLER: Was Lion still alive? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No. And there I met him again; he was 
sitting beside me at the dinner party. And Mrs. Branch 
wanted — you know, it happened hundreds of times, that we 
were introduced to each other, "Do you know Mrs. Feucht- 
wanger? This is Mr. Irving Stone." And we always said 
yes. But we didn't shake hands or something like that. And 
then when Mrs. Branch introduced him to me , I said, "Oh, 
yes, we know each other a long time, but he never liked me" 
(because he spoke about me the same as about my husband) . 
So he said — I only wanted to help him, you know, because 
I found it so ridiculous to meet each other all the time 
without noticing each other and always saying we don't 
or we did know each other or whatever. So that's why 


I said this. I said it jokingly. I said he never liked 
me. So Mr. Stone said, "Yes, that is a long time." 
[pronounced slowly] That was all. And Mrs. Branch told 
me later it was so rude, because I only wanted to help him 
building a bridge. 

WESCHLER: So that's your only enemy. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, that's my only enemy. Many people tell 
me how he always speaks about me. But with his wife, we 
are sitting sometimes together, also at other tables, at 
Louis Kaufman's or so, so we speak to each other and shake 
hands. It's not great friendship, but at least not every- 
body would notice it. 

WESCHLER: Probably the two most famous American historical 
novelists are Irving Stone and James Michener. What did 
Lion think of their writina? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Lion wrote about them. Didn't you read that 
in. . . ? 

WESCHLER: In Desdemona . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. He said he didn't like all of 
Stone's novels, but some of his novels he liked very much. 
Lust for Life he liked and also the one about Jack London 
[ Sailor on Horseback ] , I think. Three books he mentions, 
and very nicely. So Stone has no reason to be against 
WESCHLER: What about James Michener? 


FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know — they were later, I think. 
[pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: Okay. Now let's return to the last decade of 
Lion's writings and talk about the plays and the novels that 
we have not talked about heretofore. It's a tremendously 
prolific period, and one of the early works of this period 
is The Widow Capet [ Die Witwe Capet ] ; I believe 1947 was 
the date. We can check that. Can you tell us how that 
came about and any interesting things about that play that 
you have? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think he was always interested in Marie 
Antoinette. He wrote several times about her. And mostly 
he was interested in these times of political change, how 
people could not change, or could change. And he thought that 
it is maybe unjust to judge people that they did not become 
from one day to the other socialist or antimonarchist , that 
they had to be what they are, and they suffered for it, 
and that he wanted to show in this time of changing social 
behavior that you should not judge people for what they 
did but for what they knew or what they not knew. 
WESCHLER: For what they were. For their awareness. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Not in America. Only in Germany, it has been 
performed. In both Germanies . But my husband was not very 
happy about a performance. 

I didn't tell you that he wrote it in a way for Ingrid 


Bergman. She came to ask him to write a play for her. 
And he thought that she looks a little bit like Marie 
Antoinette, the first time he saw her. So he proposed this 
theme to her, and she was immediately interested. Ingrid 
Bergman came almost every day and was really burningly 
interested. But then finally her husband [Peter Lindstrom] , 
the man with whom she was then married (he was first a 
dentist and then a brain specialist, I think), he didn't 
like her to play tragedy; he wanted her always to play 
comedies. And he was very much against it. He was very 
nice with us: they invited us many times into their house, 
and also at La Rue. But he said always his wife should be 
a comedian and not a tragedian. And that influenced her 
in a way, but still it was not decisive. The decisive 
thing was that then she left here and divorced her husband — 
no, he didn't divorce her; I think he didn't give her a 
divorce. It was a very awkward situation.... 
WESCHLER: A scandal. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, a scandal. And she got a child by 
[Roberto] Rossellini. She came with Rossellini once to 
our house here, and she went upstairs to my husband's 
study, speaking about some plans or so, and I was alone with 
Rossellini, and I asked him, "Don't you think it is true that 

the Italians are very good lovers and very bad husbands?" 

He said, "I guess so." [laughter] That was the very beginning 


of their love affair. 

WESCHLER: What was Ingrid Bergman like? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, she is a wonderful person and looks 
so young still. I was with her now when she was here; 
she played in [the Shubert Theater in] Century City. 
Oh, she's wonderful; she's a wonderful person. And then the 
consul general from Sweden gave a big party for her, and 
I was invited, too. Then we went together to a movie 
which has not been shown yet. She is so fantastic. She 
is a great lady, and she is interested in everything, 
knows everything. She is very happy with her husband now 
who is a newspaperman and also publisher in Sweden [Lars 
Schmidt]. They own an island where they live in summer, and 
during the winter they go mostly to Paris; they have every- 
where houses. But it's not that she's happy about that; 
she's happy because he is a wonderful person, a very good 
looking man also. I'm so glad for her that she's happy 
now because she went through too much. You know, this 
Hedda Hopper: she almost drove her — like Marilyn Monroe, 
who she drove to her death — to suicide. You wouldn't be- 
lieve it how she treated her and how she really suspected 
her in every kind--every day Marilyn could read something 
against herself in the newspaper. She was very sensitive, 
and she suffered. 
WESCHLER: You were with her during that period? You saw 


her occasionally? 


WESCHLER: Okay. Getting back to The Widow Capet, I was 

particularly interested in the fact that there is a 

quotation from Marx which is used as the epithet. It 

led to a kind of long question. First of all, let me read 

the quotation; I have it in my notes here. It says, 

"As long as the ancien regime fought as an existing order 

against a developing world, it had on its side an historical 

error but not a personal one. Its downfall was therefore 

tragic." That's the Marx which Lion used as the foreword. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, that was also the meaning of Lion. 

WESCHLER: Right. And what I was wondering is that in the 

late forties, there were two sets of trials that were very, 

very important political trials. On the one hand, the 

Nuremberg trials were taking place in Germany; and on the 

other hand, the Un-American Activities Committee trials 
and so forth were taking place here in America. 

FEUCHTWANGER: But there were not trials here in America 

WESCHLER: Well, the hearings, right. It's the same kind 
of political upheaval. And it just leads me to ask a 
question about personal versus historical error in those 
cases. Did Lion feel personally revolted by the people 
who, for instance, were leading the Un-American Activities 
trials, or conversely, of course, and even more dramatically. 


the Nazis who were on trial at Nuremberg? Or did he see 
it as an historical error? 

FEUCHTWANGER: They knew what they did, but Marie An- 
toinette didn't know what she did. That is a difference. 
The Nazis knew what they did, because it was another time. 
They wanted to turn the time back, the Nazis. And she, 
Marie Antoinette, didn't know what happened; she just didn't 
understand it because she was raised in this tradition and 
all of a sudden everything was gone. The difference is only 
that she didn't know what happened. She didn't understand 
it. And she couldn't also. 

WESCHLER: It just struck me as unusual because of the way 
that Lion always says that he writes about past incidents to 
get a light on the present. It occurred to me that the two 
major political trials which were taking place at the time... 
FEUCHTWANGER: I think the major is what I say, that she 
didn't know and the Nazis knew what they did. So she was 
not criminal, but the Nazis were criminal. 
WESCHLER: Likewise, you would say that about the Un- 
American Activities — McCarthy, for instance, and the other 
people who were really terrified of communism. Do you 
think he would call that personal error or historical 
error for them? 

FEUCHTWANGER: That is personal error. Because there is 
something else behind it: it's not alone their behalf 


but is also the belief of those in whose pay they were, 
that is, the big capitalists. 
WESCHLER: It was more cynical. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. They didn't try to save the country; 
they tried to save the big people who didn't pay taxes. 
WESCHLER: Okay, so that there was no conunentary intended 
upon those two sets of trials in the play about this trial? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No. Everything, of course, has some 
relations, but it was not a very decisive relation. 
WESCHLER: What do you think about the possibilities of 
performing that play? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I always thought, or my husband also, what 
he read from reviews in the newspaper, that it's very 
easily misunderstood; and that's what I told him from the 
beginning. She is beautiful, and she is a victim, and she 
is a woman. Everybody would be sorry for her, and it would 
be forgotten what is behind the whole, the idea behind it 
that this has to be ended — this way of treating the people 
and governing a people had to be ended and has to be 
changed. And this, nobody was thinking about. They were 
only thinking about a personal experience and her suffering. 
So this was one-sided when it's on the — it depends, of course, 
also how the direction goes, but since it's always a beauti- 
ful actress (who is a good actress mostly) , so they are 
on her side. And this is not — they needed both sides to 


hear. It was one-sided from the audience how it was 
judged, and mostly in a sentimental way. In the meantime 
it has been played and is still playing during the 
Cloister Festivals in the medieval town of Feuchtwangen, 
Bavaria, with great success and most favorable criticism. 
At the entrance of the Cloister is a plaque about the his- 
tory of the town and it says: "In the year 1555 the family 
of the writer Lion Feuchtwanger left town." 



SEPTEMBER 17, 1975 and 
SEPTEMBER 26, 1975 

WESCHLER: We're continuing to talk about Lion's play. 

The Widow Capet . If I understand you correctly, then, 

would it be fair to say that Lion does not intend this 

play to be exclusively sympathetic to Marie Antoinette 

at all? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. As a representative of the society, 

she is not sympathetic; but as a person, she is sympathetic. 

WESCHLER: How about Saint-Just? What do you think 

Lion's feelings about him are? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He was the hero of the play. He was the one 

who tried--he was on the right way. And he also wanted to 

be just. Out of his conscience, he wanted to persuade-- 

but I think that is too much to ask, you know; I always 

said you cannot ask of a woman that she thinks, "it's all 

right for me that you condemn me to death." You cannot 

ask that. It's very beautiful in the play, but I think 

it cannot be played. It's beautiful to read, but it's 

not good to be played. 

WESCHLER: I've read somewhere that you were Lion's severest 

critic when he was writing. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , my husband said that always. 


WESCHLER: How did that come out? For instance, in this 
case, as he was writing the play, were you telling him 
that . . . ? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, when he had decided to write it, then 
I didn't say anything anymore. Before, I told him I 
don't think it's a good idea to make a play like that. 
But since he was obsessed by it at the moment — he was 
always obsessed by what he was just writing--! didn't 
interfere anymore. But in his novels, he read every day 
to me in the morning what he wrote the day before. And 
then we discussed that, and I had sometimes a decisive in- 
fluence because he canceled even people out, persons. He 
omitted persons because I said there are too many persons, 
or that this person is not happily conceived. So he always 
said, "Without you I couldn't have written the book" — which 
was exaggerated, of course. 

WESCHLER: Are there any particular characters whose de- 
mise is owed to you, who you'd like to mention? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, in ' Tis Folly To Be Wise , there is a 
second son who just is not there anymore. He was a long 
time there, but he couldn't make him alive. He felt that 
also later. So he was very unhappy. And Lion told me 
also that without me — also in his diary he wrote that 
there — that without me he couldn't have written this novel 
because there was always a stone in the way of development. 


WESCHLER: An obstacle. 
FEUCHTWANGER: An obstacle. 

WESCHLER: Lion definitely seems to go through different 
phases of writing. For instance, he wrote a whole series 
of novels on Josephus, and then he wrote this whole series 
of contemporary novels about the rise of the Nazis and 
so forth, and in the late forties he seems to have gotten 
on a jag of writing about the French Revolution and the 
American Revolution, the end of the eighteenth century. 
We have Proud Destiny , the Goya novel, the Rousseau novel. 
The Widow Capet — and also The Devil in Boston is in a way 
related to all of this. Why did Lion turn at that point 
in his life with such enthusiasm to that period? 
FEUCHTWANGER: First was his interest in Benjamin Franklin, 
And then with that, because it was Benjamin Franklin in 
Paris, he became interested in the whole part of the 
American Revolution, which of course brought to the fore 
the French Revolution. From then on came always more 
interest, also about the French in Spain, you know. And 
then with Goya , it was in a way more or less long before; 
the idea to write a Goya novel was already ripe in the 
twenties when we saw in Spain his Caprichos, his etchings. 
But everything was in a way related with revolution. Also 
Spain had a revolution. And this was always a kind of 
parallel to our times; everywhere were revolutions. 


WESCHLER: Did Lion believe that there would eventually 
be a Marxist-type revolution in America? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, he never believed that. But Americans 
believed it. I told you probably about how in the thirties, 
during the Depression, they all thought it cannot be avoid- 
ed. But he didn't think it because as they found out also 
with Roosevelt, things had to be changed, and through the 
changing, it was not so necessary anymore to make this 
decisive revolution as it was from one day to the other 
in Russia, from czarism to revolution. Here there is so 
much evolution through the unions, and — but the only thing, 
what he always complained was that the distribution is not 
good enough, the distribution of the wealth. And this was 
what he thought. At least in what they call the Third 
World or so. Lion thought that for those people it would 
be better to have more of communism. It would be faster, 
[pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: There were, as I say, six works that came more or 
less out of this interest in that period and had to do with 
that period. Were there other themes that he would have 
liked to have developed in other novels about the eighteenth 
century that he was not able to develop? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I don't think so. I think he ended this. 
WESCHLER: He had his say. 


WESCHLER: Okay. Well, we've spoken previously about the 
Goya novel — we should perhaps turn to the Rousseau 
novel, which we have not really spoken about. How is it that 
that came about? I know that he began work on it almost 
immediately after he had finished the Goya book. 
FEUCHTWANGER: What interested him is that Rousseau didn't 
know himself what he did. He wrote these great books, 
beautiful in their language and also in their new ideas; 
but for instance, when he wrote his Confessions , he wrote 
things which never happened. He confessed things which 
he never did. For instance, when he said that he brought 
his children to the orphanage and so — he had never children. 
By his sickness he couldn't have had any children. 
WESCHLER: He was sterile. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja . And maybe it was for himself not to 
be aware that he was sterile or so, that he pretended not 
to be sterile for himself. So he speaks about the children 
he brought to the orphanage. But they were not his chil- 
dren. They were the children of his wife from another man. 
And it's very understandable that he didn't want those chil- 
dren around. So that is very amazing, that this great 
thinker and philosopher and also great person, human 
person, that he himself wrote about himself as if it would 
be another person. 
WESCHLER: What other themes was Lion working on in that 


Rousseau novel? What other things was he talking about 
and thinking about when he was writing about Rousseau? 
FEUCHTWANGER : He never spoke about what he was writing, 
with nobody. Only when he has written it. First he spoke 
with me about the new theme or the new novel. But then 
he never spoke about it before he has written the daily 
part. Only when he has written this, then he read it to 
me, and then we could discuss it. But he is one of the 
people who spoke with nobody about his work. Even when 
he was with Brecht or with Arnold Zweig, with whom he 
was the most intimate about his work, he always listened to 
the others, but he never told much about himself. They 
were not aware of it, I think. [pause in tape] 
WESCHLER: Okay, in many cases these novels speak for 
themselves, and one doesn't have to say too much about them. 
In general, though, this last decade of Lion's life seems 
peculiarly intense, productively — I mean, his writing. 
FEUCHTWANGER: In his last letter to his publisher, Mr. 
Huebsch, which he wrote only a few days before his death, 
he said he felt so strong and now he feels that he can work 
very well. 

WESCHLER: Well, before we come to that point: Did it seem 
to you that he was working more intensely during the fif- 
ties than he had previously? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, I don't think so. He always worked very- 


from the time he wrote Jud Sviss , he always worked intensely. 
And the funny thing was that he worked also intensely 
when you wouldn't think he did. Even when he was gam- 
bling and traveling, and all those times, he always was ob- 
sessed of his work; all the other things were only in 
second place. 

WESCHLER: Did his writing method and style change at all 
during those years? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think his style became more simple. For 
instance, that was most obvious in Jephta and His Daughter . 
Many of the important German critics wrote that his style 
is — "This book is not written on paper; it has been 
sculpted in stone," or in granite, because the language is 
so simple and strong. 
WESCHLER: Very lean. 

WESCHLER: Did his method of writing change at all through 
the years? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, not at all, because he was working all 
the time. Even if he was not sitting at the desk, I 
think he was working all the time. And then he said his 
best ideas came always under the shower, [laughter] 
WESCHLER: Well, you know that [Erik] Erikson made a whole 
thesis on the basis of the fact that Luther's best ideas 
came to him when he was sitting in the bathroom. We can 


expect a similar thesis about Lion in the shower. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, but there is also Walther von der 
Vogelweide, this ballad singer of the medieval times.... 
WESCHLER: Troubadour. 

FEUCHTWANGER: In a way, ja. He said that the most en- 
joyable things are eating and then relieving oneself of 
it. [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Let's try and rescue this interview from this 
theme and move on to the next novel, which was Raquel , 
the Jewess of Toledo . That novel seems to return us 
to the Spanish themes that were evidenced in Goya . Do 
you think that that was part of it, that he hadn't gotten 
Spain out of his system? 

FEUCHTWANGER: It was one reason, but the other reason 
was that from his youth on, he always wanted to write a 
novel about Esther, the Biblical Esther. This whole 
story always intrigued him. But then when he tried to 
do it, when he began to think about it, he found it 
doesn't give enough to write about, it is too small a 
plot. And he knew, of course, this ballad, which was an 
antique ballad of the Jewess of Toledo; and Grillparzer, 
the Austrian playwright, wrote a play about the whole thing. 
The whole plot in the book is an old ballad which has been 
sung by the balladeers. So it was a little bit the same 
story, only that the ending is another ending. One is a 


happy ending, and The Jewess of Toledo is not. Those 
two things: first of all he saw all those buildings of 
Toledo and all the environment, and that made a great 
impression on him; but the second was that he had always 
in the back of his mind to write a kind of story which 
has to do with a father and the daughter — and also with 
the Jews who, like Jud Siiss , had great luck and ended 
always in despair. 

WESCHLER: It seems in looking at that book that it has 
a tremendous similarity to Jud Siiss . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but nobody mentions that ever; nobody 
found that out. 

WESCHLER: Well, that makes me naively brilliant to have 
noticed it. [laughter] 

FEUCHTWANGER: It is also not necessary. You should judge 
every book for itself. 

WESCHLER: But it is just very interesting, the similar- 
ities, [pause in tape] Something else about Raquel . 
FEUCHTWANGER: He was speaking about the brothers. There 
was another brother (I think even two brothers) of Yehuda, 
the hero in The Jewess of Toledo , and one was staying with 
an Arab king and is a Moslem but was going back to Judaism 
and was going to the European world, to the Christian king. 
It has something to do.... [pause in tape] There is the 
destiny of the Jews to be distributed over the whole world. 


like it says in the Bible, like the sand on the sea, that 
they have to live the life of the land where they are 
staying. Since the destruction of the Temple in Israel, 
they have no real center anymore. And then he said the 
only center which is left is the book, the Bible. This 
was the only thing which keeps the Jews together. But he 
considers that not as a religious book, but as a historical 
togetherness, a historical tradition. I think it's the 
oldest people who have never changed, although they were 
in so different parts of the world. 

WESCHLER: There is a passage in The Jewess of Toledo which 
interests me very much in terms of Lion's own relation to 
Judaism at the end of his life. Let me just read this to 
you and then ask you about it. It has to do with the 
character Musa. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja, he's the Arab. 

WESCHLER: Yes. I'll just quote it: "'You often speak of 
the Prophet without reverence. Why do you remain a Mo- 
hammedan, Uncle Musa?' 'I'm a believer in three religions,' 
Musa answered. 'Each of them has some good in them, and 
each of them teaches things that reason refuses to accept. ' 
He stepped over to his writing desk where he scribbled circles 
and arabesques, and he said over his shoulder, 'So long 
as I am convinced that my people's faith is no worse than 
that of any other people, I would be disgusted with myself if 


I left the community into which I was born.'" Do you think 
that that is Lion also speaking of his relationship to 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think so, ja. I think so, too. 
WESCHLER: I'm interested in the fact that toward the end 
of his life, after having written on diverse themes, and 
particularly about the French Revolution and so forth, that 
for his last two novels, he returned to Jewish themes 
again, which I find in some ways very significant. 
FEUCHTWANGER: He had always disputed with himself about 
this thing, probably, and wanted to get more clarity in 
writing it. 

WESCHLER: Do you think that his feelings about Judaism 
changed toward the end of his life? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, not at all. It's always the same. 
WESCHLER: One of the things which I find is that his 
Judaism seems very much like Spinoza's, in the sense that 
it's a sense of God working in history. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, and everyone has his own God in him- 
self. And also that God is in nature. This is Spinoza's 
teaching, the whole world, I don't know — " weltall , " 
it's called in German. 
WESCHLER: In all things.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , in all things. 
WESCHLER: In fact, in Jefta, the little quotation before 


the book begins is from Spinoza also. ["I have honestly 

endeavored not to laugh at the actions of men, not to 

bemoan them, but to understand them." "Sedulo curavi hu- 

manas actiones non ridere, non lugere, neque detestari, 

sed intelligere. " ] 

FEUCHTWANGER: But Jefta was for him, what he always said, 

about the childhood of the religion of Judaism. 

WESCHLER: One question before we talk about Jefta ; 

was Lion interested in writing a novel about Spinoza, by 

any chance? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, never. He spoke never about it. I 

think there are some novels about him. But it doesn't 

give enough: he died so early. You can write maybe a 

short story about him, but it doesn't give enough to show the 

man or his life. You don't know so much about him. 

WESCHLER: Is it fair to say, though, that Lion was very 

much influenced by Spinoza? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, yes, you can say that. Also Goethe was 


WESCHLER: Okay. Getting back to Jefta, I interrupted 

you. You were talking about the childhood of the race? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he said the childhood of the Jewish 

religion, of Yahweh, he said, because it was the beginning 

to recognize that there is only one and unvisible God. 

He found that this is an historical event, because before 


also the Jews had idols. And he found it is more 

entering into the spiritual world, because a God who 

is not to be seen and cannot be represented in any work 

of art is a spiritual God. And this is also the God of 

Spinoza, of course. But it's the childhood of it, just the 


WESCHLER: In this novel again, of course, we have the 

theme which is extremely close to the novel just before, 

that of the father and daughter and of the sacrifice, in 

a way, of the daughter. Yehuda in The Jewess had to in 

a certain sense sacrifice his daughter. Did he see the 

themes as parallel themes? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, he saw them in a different way. But 

the history is also mythology in the part of Jef ta . So 

it has to do also with nature, with the people who lived 

with nature, nearer to nature in those days. It was 

also to explain like the [coming] of spring. Also in 

Greek mythology is the same with Iphigeneia; she is also 

sacrificed by her father. And also in Germany fairy tales, 

there are the same themes. So this must have had something 

to do with nature, with the elements of nature, because 

it's in all people, in all countries, the same theme. 

And so this was something which was very near to the elements 

and which has to — it was unavoidable in a way. There is 

also, for instance, the sacrifice of Isaac. 


WESCHLER: Abraham and Isaac. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, always the father and the son. The 

sacrifices were many, but it is always the father and 

the son, or the father and the child. This must have a 

meaning which maybe we don't even understand anymore 

what it means. 

WESCHLER: Of course, we have mentioned before the way in 

which it related to Lion's own life. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it could be also, but I think it's not 

the only reason. 

SEPTEMBER 26, 1975 

WESCHLER: Before we continue talking about the last years 
of Lion's life, you had a memory which occurred to you over 
the last week concerning some of the reasons you left Munich 
to go to Berlin. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it was like an inner exile, inside 
Germany, because they harassed my husband terribly in 
Munich, mostly on account of his taxes. You know, the value 
of the mark was one billion, like one gold mark. And of 
course, when he got his royalties from his plays, we always 
were trembling that another theater would announce another 
play of his because we knew he would never get any money 
off it. Until the money came — it goes first to the publisher, 
then the publisher sent it to my husband, and until then. 


that was every day a devaluation. So until we got the money 
really, we couldn't even buy a piece of bread anymore. 
And before it was the value of about, let's say, $1,000. 
So my husband, of course, he paid his taxes from the day 
he got his money. And then the tax people said he has to 
pay the taxes from the date it comes from the theater, from 
the box office. But first of all my husband would never 
have known when was the play played (because it was not only 
one day played; it was several times, of course), or how much 
they got (because he only got his royalties from the pub- 
lisher). He paid from what he got. But they said, "You 
know, you are with one foot [already] in jail." They came 
always to our house. And that was only harassing; they 
had no real [intention] . But they said they can sue him 
for not paying the taxes on the money he earned. 
WESCHLER: Why do you think they were harassing him? Was 
this already proto-Nazi? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, of course. He was always known as anti- 
Nazi in Munich. And Hitler was a great man; although 
his putsch was at an end and he was in jail, he was very 
soon let out. And all Lion's books were for peace. And 
then he was a Jewish writer, of course, also, and his whole 
attitude during the war (although he was a soldier, he wrote 
"The Song of the Fallen," which was considered antiwar) — 
so he was absolutely persona non grata. And then, they 


even told him, "We are sorry that you are born here because 
we wanted to expel you." 

And there is a very funny story about a firm which 
sold beautiful embroideries, very rare and artistic work 
of women who worked for this firm. And those were pros- 
titutes who were taken in by a monastery, which was called — 
it had a special title, like "the good work for the people." 
They took the sick prostitutes in. And to make their living 
they had to work for this monastery; the monastery sold 
it to this firm, and that was the only way that this monas- 
tery could continue their work for the poor prostitutes. 
And then they found out these people of the firm were from 
Austria, so they expelled the whole family. There were 
two beautiful daughters; the one daughter had married even an 
aristocrat. They were wealthy and distinguished, but 
they were not born in Munich, so they expelled them. And 
this — yes, the Monastery of the Good Shepherd, it was 
called — the monastery folded. And all the prostitutes 
were on the street again, and then they were sick — that 
was the result. 

WESCHLER: And this you attribute to a kind of pre-Nazi 
anti-Semitism and so forth. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, of course, it was, ja, ja, absolutely. 
So they said that they are sorry that we are both born in 
Munich so they cannot expel us — until now, they said. 


[laughter] So finally it was really not very healthy 
anymore to stay in Munich, and that's why we left. 
Very much against our choice, because we liked to stay 
in Munich. We had many friends there. Although Brecht 
and Heinrich Mann already left — they had that feeling 
before already. 

WESCHLER: So you think this was primarily harassment by 
the government, or were private citizens beginning to harass 
you also? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, no, it was only the government, ja. It 
was the Bavarian government, because Munich itself was 
more liberal. It was the Bavarian government; they were 
very autonomic, the different states of the country. 
WESCHLER: Okay. Well, having put that down, I think we 
should come forward now to where we left off last time. 
We finished talking about the novels, and the very last 
work that Lion was working on in his last year was The 
House of Desdemona. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , but that was not a novel; that was a 
long essay about the historical novel. It promised to be 
very interesting. Now it is only a [pause in tape] frag- 
ment, but the foreword, which is a very long foreword, was 
finished. That was the only thing finished; the others were 
more or less notes about it. But it says already what his 
intentions were. 


WESCHLER: Was this the main thing he was working on during 
that period? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, the only thing. 
WESCHLER: For his last year, in effect. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja, it was his last year. But it was 
interrupted by two operations. 

WESCHLER: Well, let's finish talking about the book first, 
and then we'll talk about the operations. 

WESCHLER: Apparently the manuscript existed.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, and we didn't even think about anything. 
First of all, it was just a fragment, and then many things 
were in shorthand, a very old-fashioned shorthand which 
nobody [understood]; even the secretary who learned her 
shorthand in Europe, also in Germany, had another kind of 
shorthand. But I, as a young girl, wanted to learn every- 
thing, and in my school you could learn accounting, double 
accounting and shorthand and Italian. The Italian language, 
that was very interesting for me, so this I liked to learn. 
But the others I did just, I didn't like it very much. The 
accounting also I gave up; that was too much for me. But 
stenography, I thought that would be fun, to write to 
people so nobody else could read it. So I kept a little 
bit in my memory what I learned. And my husband later, 
sometimes when he was alone on a trip, he wrote his letters 


in shorthand. So I usually could find out, but he had 
some seals which were special, and I had always with me a 
little book, a very little book; wherever I went, skiing 
or wherever, I had this little book with me, so in case 
he writes in shorthand, I could find out every word. This 
book went with me also to France, in the concentration 
camp, over the Pyrenees--everywhere, I had this little 
book with me. And this book was a great help. It was 
very old-fashioned, of course; it was from around 1900 
or so. 

So when I saw this manuscript with all those remarks, 
whole paragraphs written in shorthand, I thought it would 
be impossible to publish it. I never did think about pub- 
lishing it as a fragment. His Gabelsberger shorthand was 
even written with pencil, and the pencil was already smudged. 
Almost unreadable. And I never thought about it. Then 
Dean Arlt came to me, asked me if I have anything which has 
not been published. I said, everything has been published 
except this what my husband worked on, but it is not fin- 
ished — it's a fragment. "Oh. Let me read it; let me have 
it." So I gave it to him, and he went to Arrowhead (where 
there is a kind of vacation house for UCLA) ; and in three 
days he had translated this foreword. I asked him later 
if I can pay for it, but he said, "Of course not. This was 
a work of love. I would never take any payment for it." 


WESCHLER: Now, you had already translated it from shorthand 
into German? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, because he asked me to do it. I 
wouldn't have done it — I wouldn't have thought about it — 
but he said, "Won't you do it, write it down, what is in 
shorthand, and I will take it with me?" 
WESCHLER: Was that very difficult to do? 
FEUCHTWANGER: It was very difficult. I couldn't sleep. 
Day and night I was thinking sometimes — what could that 
mean? Sometimes this was easier with verses; I could find 
out with the rhyme what the other word was. And finally 
I think I really found everything what was necessary. 
WESCHLER: How soon after Lion had died were you doing this? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I don't remember, but it was very soon after- 
wards. You can see in the book when it has been published. 
No, there is another thing, if I find it. So many things 
have been stolen: one of them was published in Books 
Abroad (that is a very rarified magazine) . It was mostly 
universities that read and buy it. But it made such a sen- 
sation, this foreword — [Arlt] only translated the foreword, 
that they brought out a special edition only from this fore- 
word, a very great edition. And one came by chance to Wayne 
[State] University, and the dean of the German department 
called me some day from Detroit and asked me if I would 
allow him to print that, to make a book out of it. And he 


came here to make the contract- There was a little dif- 
ficulty because he said that when he translates the 
book, the whole thing as a fragment, he would like to 
translate also the foreword, [to avoid] different styles 
when he translates the other thing, and if I could ask 
Mr. Arlt that he would allow him that this... 
WESCHLER: ...that a new translation be made. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , Professor Basilius was his name. And 
Arlt was generous enough to say, of course, that was no 
problem. He is also mentioned by Professor Basilius in 
his preface. So he came out, and it was a great literary 
success; they even brought a paperback out. It was enor- 
mously expensive. This little thing was seven dollars or 
something like that. It's a very thin volume, but people 
really were interested in it. I always said it's because 
it's so short. 

WESCHLER: It is one of Lion's shortest books. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Really, that's true, [laughter] 
WESCHLER: But that's only because it's unfinished. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. That's true, [laughter] And he had 
also some ideas which he told me during the writing; he 
wrote a lot about Sir Walter Scott, whom he liked very much, 
but he said it was too long in comparison to others which 
he wanted to treat with. He wanted to write much about 
Arnold Zweig, The Case of Sergeant Grischa, and this was 


not mentioned, I think, in the book yet. So there are 

many things that are lacking. I always thought I should 

have written a little afterword, you know, to explain 

that it was really not finished — anyway, not even in the 

rough, in the notes. 

WESCHLER: Were there other things that he was working on, 

besides Arnold Zweig in specific, which you would want to 

have remembered? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, I don't remember. Mostly it was Arnold 

Zweig that he regretted, that he told me. The balance is 

not good: Scott is too much, and Zweig he has not even 

mentioned yet. It would have been too long also in the end. 

He was very much — you can see when you read it — he was very 

much interested in American literature. Also this Badge of 

Courage . 

WESCHLER: The Red Badge of Courage by Stephen Crane. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. Made a great impression on him. 

WESCHLER: Was that impression after he came to America, or 

even already in Europe? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, he didn't know it before. He only read 

it here. 

WESCHLER: What did he think of some of the American writers 

of that generation, Hemingway and Faulkner and so forth? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Hemingway he admired very much. As an artist. 

But he was not very much interested in his themes, what 


he wrote; it was too one-sided. But he said he's a great 
artist, of course. 
WESCHLER: What about Faulkner? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Faulkner was more interesting for him, al- 
though he didn't share many of his views. Faulkner once 
said that if he had to take sides, often he would take 
sides of the white man, or something like that. But still 
Faulkner, although he was a Southerner, wrote one book which 
impressed me very much, something with August... 
WESCHLER: . . . Light in August . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, Light in August . And there the Negroes, 
I think, are treated with great compassion. I think against 
his own will, I must say. But I admired Faulkner very 

WESCHLER: How about Steinbeck? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, Lion liked his earlier works very much, 
all the smaller works before he wrote Grapes of Wrath , 
and then he admired Grapes of Wrath greatly. And then 
later on Lion thought that he had no compassion anymore 
as he had before, you know. He was cooler; he became cooler. 
And so he was not so interesting anymore for my husband. 
WESCHLER: Are there any other specific American writers 
who you would mention in this context? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, there is one, [Clyde] Brion [DavisJ , 
whom he mentions in The House of Desdemona. He is rather 


unknown here, but my husband said he found him a great 
writer. And because he was unknown, he wanted to mention 
him especially. And of course Sinclair Lewis. 
WESCHLER: Okay, well, moving from his relationship with 
the American writers and the Desdemona book, I suppose 
it's time to pick up a theme which we did in detail before, 
that of the Un-American Activities and so forth, and in 
particular now it's time to look at Lion's own attempts to 
get American citizenship. He lived in the United States for 
eighteen years without ever being granted his citizenship? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it's true. He had his first papers. 
Then after five years, he could have asked for the second 
papers, but he said, "I want to finish first my novel 
Proud Destiny because I don't want to come with empty hands. 
I want to bring America the novel about Benjamin Franklin" 

(whom he considered such a great American) . And then that 
was much later and that was not the right time anymore for 
him to want to be admitted as a citizen. 

WESCHLER: So, ironically, it was precisely waiting to give 
the gift that. . . . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Precisely, ja, ja, absolutely. 
WESCHLER: We've talked about the trials and so forth 
that Eisler and Brecht and so forth went through, Mann's 

[decision] to leave. But Lion himself was not personally 
subjected to any appearances before the Un-American Activities 



FEUCHTWANGER: No, he was not asked to come to Washington, 
to the Un-American Committee; but they tried to do the same 
here when he applied for the citizenship. He had always 
hearings here, but they never made him American. They al- 
ways said, "We have to continue our research. We have to 
have some more hearings" — but they never denied it. They 
just postponed it all the time. 

WESCHLER: You mentioned to me off tape a phrase that really 
interested me, in talking about why he was never sent to that 
Un-American Activities Committee, although he was being 
constantly mentioned. 

FEUCHTWANGER: I have the feeling, and also other people told 
me that — but I have no proof--that he had somebody very 
powerful who didn't allow it that he was asked to come to 

WESCHLER: Do you have any idea who? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I have no idea, but we always said there 
must be somebody in a high position who protected him 
because he admired his work. But I have no proof for it. 
It was also very astonishing that he has not been called, 
after what he has been asked during the hearings for the 

WESCHLER: Another thing, along the same lines: you men- 
tioned that there was a great lawyer, who will remain 


nameless, who came from Washington.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I don't even remember his name; even 
if I wanted to tell you, I wouldn't know the name anymore. 
He came here with another lawyer — whose name I also forgot, 
because nothing came out of it. They heard that he has 
difficulties with becoming his citizenship, and they asked 
him several questions, if he would deny, speak against com- 
munism, things like that. And then my husband, 
he wouldn't do that. He would not change his attitude even 
if he would not become his citizenship. He wanted to become 
an American but not on this condition. So they said, "We 
are helpless. You cannot be helped." [laughter] 
WESCHLER: So the citizenship hearings, or questioning 
sessions--how often did they occur? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think four or five times. At first we went 
always to the Federal Building, and there my husband has 
been asked all kinds of question about his friendships 
mostly, and about this poem he wrote once in 1915, this 
"Song of the Fallen." They said it is a revolutionary poem. 
Then my husband said, "But it was against the war. You 
were our enemies, and if I was against it, well, then you must 
be for me. It was not against anybody else, just against 
the war. And we all knew that you were not guilty of the 
war, that it was the kaiser who made the war. [If anybody 
was] the target, it was the German kaiser and the German 


military." But that didn't help. They called that "pre- 
mature antifascism. " That was the expression for it. 
So he said, "If I am guilty of premature antifascism, I'm 
very proud of it." [laughter] 

WESCHLER: There were some things which I thought we 
might even read, some passages from those hearings. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, I want to tell you also that we were 
together when he has been asked all those questions, and 
they asked me, "And what are you thinking, Mrs. Feuchtwanger?" 
And then I said, "I know the Bible very well, and in the 
Bible it says, 'Where you go, I go.' And that's what I 
do here, too." [laughter] So they couldn't do anything 
anymore, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: I want to read some of these passages into the 
tape, but before we do that, can you describe the people 
who were interrogating him. What were they like? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I think they were judges, I don't know. 
You know, here you don't know people; they look all alike. 
In Germany, a judge would be very elegant and remote; but 
here, people are all the same. They are all very nice 
American and very polite and very nice. I had the feeling 
they were very humane people. Once even, the last time 
when they asked my husband — they came here because my 
husband was not well enough anymore to go to the Federal 
Building — they said, "You know, we cannot do anything. 


We do only what Washington tells us." So they even were 

ashamed a little bit of their own role, what they had 

to do. But they wanted to help him, and they said, 

"We could ask you some things maybe that would help. For 

instance, do you believe in God?" Which is a question 

which is against the Constitution. But they wanted to help 

him, you know. They didn't want to intimidate him, like 

the Nazis did in Germany. But it was very difficult, and then 

he gave them that answer. 

WESCHLER: Okay, I want to turn over the tape, and then we 

can read some of these passages, because I think they 

would be very interesting to read verbatim. 


SEPTEMBER 26, 1975 

WESCHLER: We are talking right now about the long attempts 

to get Lion his citizenship. What we want to do right 

now is just to read verbatim from the transcript. The 

whole transcript is here in the Feuchtwanger Library and 

is an incredible document in itself, but I thought we 

could read a couple passages to get a flavor of what 

those hearings were like. Let's start with the passage 

about Thomas Mann. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, would you like to know when it was? 


WESCHLER: So that's very near the time when Lion died, 



Q. Did you know Thomas Mann? 
A. Very well. 

Q. When did you meet Thomas Mann? 

A. In Munich, very early, during the First World War, 

Q. Did you see him in the United States? 
A. Very often. 

Q. Did he come to your home? 
A. Yes. 

Q. Did you go to his home? 

A. Very often — every two weeks for dinner. 

Q. Did you discuss socialism or communism with 
Thomas Mann? 


A. Yes. 

Q. From your observation and discussions with Thomas 
Mann, would you say that he was in favor of 

A. No. On the contrary, he was anticommunist . 

Q. Would you say he favored socialism? 
A. Yes, in a moderate way, because he was no poli- 

Q. Did you write an article in which you praised 
Thomas Mann very highly and discussed his life 
and works at about the time of his death in 1955? 

A. Yes, after his death, or for his eightieth birth- 
day--! don't remember. I wrote some articles 
about it. 

Q. In the articles, you stated the demagogues made 

"smear" attacks against him. What did you mean by 
"smear" attacks against Thomas Mann? 

A. Because he was a liberal and he was attacked by 
the papers. For instance, as when he wrote an 
article for peace between the East and the West. 
Einstein signed an article for Mann, and he was 
attacked as a dupe and a dope, and I thought that 
was a "smear" attack. 

Q. Did Thomas Mann ever write any articles in which 

he praised the Soviet Union? 
A. No. 

Q. Now this article which you wrote regarding Thomas 

Mann — to whom was it contributed? 
A. That I don't remember, because my articles are 

printed and reprinted by at least 1- or 2,000 


Q. Would you say that this article was directly con- 
tributed by you or at your direction to the daily 

A. Certainly not. Such articles are always reprinted 
even without my or anybody's consent. 

Q. Would you say this article was contributed by you 
or at your direction to any publication behind the 
Iron Curtain? 

A. No, definitely. 


Q. Did you know that Thomas Mann had been honored 

by the East German press? 
A. I, too, was honored by them; so, probably, he was. 

Q. Would you say he was honored by the East German 

press because of his...? 
A. Because he was for the unification of Germany. 

Every writer is for the unification of Germany, so 

we get rid of those questions of "Are you for 

us?" or "Are you for them?" 

WESCHLER: Was Lion very ill at the time that these things 
were going on? 

FEUCHTWANGER : Yes, he was. In this year he had three opera- 

WESCHLER: And was it strenuous for him to go through these 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it was very strenuous, ja. 
WESCHLER: Did he very much want to become an American citi- 
zen at that time? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, of course. He was living here, he liked 
to live here, and it was also necessary to be a citizen of 
some state. It was not a good situation to have no passport. 
He could not travel or so. A man without a fatherland was 
not a very happy man, usually. 

WESCHLER: Was there any symbolic significance for him that 
he die an American citizen? Did he want to get the citizen- 
ship before he died? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, not so much, I wouldn't say that. He 
said always, "It wouldn't change me. I was a German my 


whole life, except for twelve years, the Nazi time. I 

could not change myself and become an American. I would 

never be a real American. I am too old for that." But 

he wanted to be one of the American people. But he was 

not terribly keen to have any kind of citizenship anymore, 

because he said, "You cannot change your citizenship. You 

are born, and I am born in the German language; I am a 

German writer, and this cannot be changed when I'm an 

American. " 

WESCHLER: I think one of the things that's so impressive 

about these hearings was that they were taking place in 

1958. I mean, it's not as though it's at the high point of 

the McCarthy era that those questions are being asked. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it was after McCarthy. 

WESCHLER: After McCarthy, and Thomas Mann is already dead 

for several years at that point. It's really appalling. 

This next one is also very interesting. You can perhaps 

read part of that. 


Q. Dr. Feuchtwanger, do you believe in God? 
A. "God" is such a many-sided word that I couldn't 
say yes. I don't believe in a personal God. 

Q. Then, do you believe in a theistic philosophy or 
conception of God? 

A. I believe, for instance, in the God of the Uni- 
tarians. I believe in the God of Spinoza. I believe 
that there is "Sense" in the universe. 

Q. Then you do not subscribe actually to a Supernatural 


Being of some sort as, by illustration, the very 
Judaism which believes in God? 
A. That is a very controversial question, because there 
are Jews who are very liberal and who are of the opin- 
ion of the Unitarians. 

Q. For instance, there are three forms of Judaism 
today: the Reformed, the Conservatives, and the 
Orthodox. . . . 

A. And the Extreme Reformists. 

Q. Even the Extreme Reformists, however. Doctor, 
accept the belief in a Supernatural Being, one 

A. I think that was why they banned Spinoza. I am for 
Spinoza. I am for Einstein. 

Q. What was their theory? 

A. The theory of Spinoza is that God is in the things; 

that He is not above the things. He is in the 

universe, not above the universe. 

Q. Would you say that in taking an oath of allegiance 
to the United States in which the phrase "So 
help me God" is included--does this contemplate, 
in your thinking, a solemn oath of import that 
is of the magnitude intended by the phrase involved 
in this oath of allegiance? 

A. I don't feel such a phrase is very fortunate. But 
I feel that as a writer, I have a solemn duty not 
to say, not to write anything in which I do not 
firmly believe. 

Q. Do you believe in atheism? 

A. Since I am a philologist, so I am fairly correct 
in the definition of words, and a word like 
"atheism" or "God" is so vague that you can't say 
you believe in that or in that. Is it clear what 
I want to say? 

Q. Do you find that you could take the oath of alle- 
giance to the United States in which the words that 
are administered by the court read, "So help me 

A. Yes, I think so, because I know exactly what is 
meant even if I, as a writer,' would phrase it 

Q. The words in the oath "So help me God" denote a 


belief in a Supernatural Being, do they not? 
A. Not necessarily, because there are in this country 
10 percent of the people who call themselves athe- 
ists and who take the oath very sincerely because 
they feel actually bound by this oath, as firmly 
as a human being can be bound by any oath or state- 

Q. Would you classify yourself among this 10 percent? 

A. Not necessarily, because probably I believe strong- 
er in some sense in the universe which can be called 
"God" and which can be wronged through a false 

Q. Are there any further statements you would like to 
make, Dr. Feuchtwanger? 

A. All in all, I would like to advise that I never 

was involved in any political activity, neither in 
this country nor before. What I had to say, I 
said in my books. That was all my political acti- 
vity. I feel I am a historian, not a politician. 

WESCHLER: It's rather appalling that those questions were 

being asked by an official government agency. They are so 

manifestly unconstitutional and irrelevant. 

FEUCHTWANGER: But at the end they said, "It's not our 

fault that we have to ask all those questions, to press you 

so much, because we have to do what Washington asked us to 

do." I had the feeling that they suffered with my husband. 

But since they had to do that.... And there was usually also 

a man with them. I had the feeling he was from the FBI. 

He was sitting in a corner and looking very lugubrious. 


WESCHLER: You've talked about that. What was the status 

after this trial on the twentieth of November, 1958? 

FEUCHTWANGER: There was nothing — all they said was, "We 


have to send that back to Washington, what you said today, 
and we will have probably another hearing." But they never 
denied him the citizenship; they only said it has to be 

And after he died, the next day they called me and 
they said they are very, terribly sorry that he hasn't 
been made a — they just were about to make him a citizen. 
They were appalled that they couldn't do it anymore. And 
then they asked me, they said, "Next month we know that's 
your birthday. You come and then you will get your citizen- 

WESCHLER: What happened? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I was so furious about the whole thing. 
I just didn't want to be a citizen in those days, I found 
the whole thing so unjust and cruel. But I went there with 
a gentleman who helped very much all the emigrants, Mr. 
Koblitz (he had also Arnold Schoenberg to come here) ; my 
husband's secretary, Hilde Waldo, was my other witness. And 
when they asked me, "Are you for communism?" I said yes. I 
was so furious I just couldn't hold myself. So they said, 
"Why are you for communism?" I said, "Oh, I think the unde- 
veloped countries would be well off probably if they had 
some communism." So the man said to the secretary, "Don't 
write that down." He dictated something else, [laughter] 
And then I have become a citizen. 


WESCHLER: What does that citizenship mean to you? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I think it's practical to be an American, 
but I also couldn't change myself. I cannot feel that I 
am another person since I am an American. I'm grateful 
that they made me an American because I was grateful that 
they let me in--I'm not an important person and I was glad 
to be saved from the Nazis. But I cannot change myself. 
I was too long a German. I am also grown up in the German 
culture and the German language, and I read German still 
and have many relations with German writers and German culture. 
So it is more or less — it is necessary to be an American be- 
cause you have then a passport. But I must say that in 
the time I have lived here, I really learned to love America. 
So I would do it now, maybe for love, [laughter] First, 
I did it only for necessity. 

WESCHLER: When you say you've learned to love America, 
what things . . . ? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I like the American people. I don't say that 
I always liked the American government, but I like the American 
people; they are so easy to live with. You know, when you 
come from Europe, the Germans are so individual, and every 
neighbor is an enemy; here people are so neighborly and 
helpful. Also it's easier — even the people who sit behind 
the wheel are polite here, what you couldn't say from the 
Europeans, [laughter] 


WESCHLER: The drivers, you mean? 

FEUCHTWANGER: The drivers, ja. [laughter] It's a kind 
of very easy relationship between people here — maybe not 
so very deep sometimes, but it is the only way to live 
together. There is a kind of solidarity of people. And 
also, I like the young people here; they are not just play- 
boys, but they have ideas to better themselves and to 
better the world, even under great sacrifices. I must say 
that I love America now. [quiet laughter] 
WESCHLER: Has there ever been any chance when you could 
have regained your German citizenship? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, yes, automatically. I was always. The 
moment the war was over, every person who was a German 
automatically got back the citizenship. 
WESCHLER: So you have dual citizenship right now? 
WESCHLER: You just declined it? 

FEUCHTWANGER: You cannot have dual citizenship. 
WESCHLER: So that you declined your German citizenship? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No — yes, I think we gave it back, with the 
first papers; you had to give back whatever you had of docu- 
ments to be a German. 

WESCHLER: Would you ever consider becoming a German citizen 
again if it were offered? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No. Also I don't think it's necessary to be 


a citizen of any country. I am a citizen of the world, I don't 
want to have--I don't think that this country or this citizen- 
ship is better than the others. And that's why I wouldn't 
change anymore — the third time, no. [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Well, let's go back now and talk about the somber sub- 
ject of Lion's illness and how that proceeded. 

FEUCHTWANGER: It was considered that he had cancer. But in those 
days, they said that he was already seventy-four years old, and 
that cancer usually stops at this age, that it would not proceed 
sometimes . 

WESCHLER: What kind of cancer was this? 

FEUCHTWANGER: First it began, I think, with stomach cancer. But 
it was then also, mostly he has been operated on the kidneys. 
They took out one kidney for the kidney cancer. But we always 
thought that even with one kidney he could still live a good life, 
because at this age, cancer sometimes stops. But it was tragic 
that he was in so good shape; he always made a lot of exercise, 
swimming and mountain climbing, even jogging and all that. And 
daily calisthenics. He looked very young; also he was resistant 
against sickness usually. So in the beginning the doctors all 
said he could last a long time after the operation. But it didn't 
stop, because his body was not old enough. But he never knew that 
he had cancer. He knew that he had only one kidney, but he thought 
only that there is a little gland on top of the kidney, and that 
this has been operated on. 


WESCHLER: The adrenal gland? 

FEUCHTWANGER : Ja, ja. So he didn't think that he was so 

dangerously ill. 

WESCHLER: When was this kidney operation, a couple of years 


FEUCHTWAl-IGER: No, no, all in the same year. He told me that it 

was so terrible after the operation, to wake up — he had the 

feeling that he already died because he was a long time in special 

care, intensive care, and he must have felt that. But then they 

had to have another operation, and he was very obedient and said, 

"If it has to be, then it has to be." And then he thought this 

would be his last operation, that he would be well again; he even 

wrote a letter to his publisher how well he felt — didn't I give 

you the letter, a copy? He wrote to his publisher that he felt 

so much better, strong enough, and he is now beginning to work 

again. That was only one month before he died. 

WESCHLER: HOW suddenly had this illness come upon him, this 

series of illnesses? Had it been an ongoing thing as he 

got older, or was it...? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He had no real pains, he felt sometimes on 

the left side, it was the Milz ["spleen"] I think, this 

organ. It is an organ which is not absolutely necessary; 

many people are operated on and have it taken out. It's a 

big, big — it's called Milz . The blood comes through it, and 

it's mostly for cleaning the blood. And the doctor who 


operated on it said he himself had it taken out because 
he had malaria during the war when he was in the army and 
the infection was too much, so it had been taken out. He 
gave him every hope that — that was the first operation, 
taking out the spleen. Then it was the kidney. And then 
he should have had a third operation. And this was then — 
they didn't make any operation anymore. For a while he 
had blood transfusions after the second operation. And the 
doctor was there this morning — I remember it was a Saturday 
morning — and said, "I think you are much better. The last 
laboratory tests were better. You don't need any blood 
transfusion anymore, and that is a good sign." He tested 
his body and said, "I think there is also no swelling anymore, 
and it doesn't feel so hot anymore." And we were all very 
happy. Then he made a little calisthenics, like he al- 
ways insisted. I even wanted him not to do it, but he in- 
sisted to do some pushups always. 
WESCHLER: This was at the hospital? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, here. That was when he was better. It 
was after the second operation. He felt better, and the 
doctor said that he didn't need any blood transfusion any- 

And then he laid down — he did that always in the after- 
noon — and said, "Today, I think I don't go in the sun, I 
go to bed. Maybe I can sleep a little bit because I want to 


work afterwards." I was sitting underneath his bedroom in 
what is now the historical library, reading, and all of a 
sudden I heard a thump. I went up, and there was Lion 
lying out of the bed, on the floor, and he had a bleeding 
of the stomach. Since I knew this kind because his family 
had it always--he had it before in the army--so I knew what 
to do. The best thing is not to move him at all. I made 
him comfortable lying on the floor; I put a cushion under 
covered him, and called the doctor. It was very dif- 
ficult to get a doctor on Saturday. Finally I got a doctor 
in Pacific Palisades. His own doctor was not here (he was 
out of the city). And there came a doctor, and he said, 
"We have to bring him to the hospital." What was quite 
natural. And I didn't move him; I only knew that [one] 
usually gives some ice cubes, some ice to eat, because that 
cools the stomach, stops the bleeding. And then he has 
been brought to Mount Sinai Hospital. His doctor, in the 
meantime, came also--no, it was a representative of his doc- 
tor. And he said that probably he needs another operation. 
And he asked then his real doctor to come — I think he was at 
his property near Palm Springs, La Quinta. 
WESCHLER: Who was his real doctor? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Dr. Erich Wolff. He came then and he told 
me he has to have another operation. I said, "I think you 
shouldn't operate anymore. I think you should leave him 


alone." He said, "But don't you want us to help him?" I 

said, "I think he is too weak for an operation." So they 

prepared everything for my husband's operation. The only 

thing--he had no pain; I went with him with the ambulance, 

and he only said it was difficult, the ambulance, because 

it was bumping too much. And then the only thing what he 

had was that he was suffering from thirst; he wanted to 

drink, and he was not allowed to drink anything. So I told 

him maybe the best is to get some ice in his mouth. And he 

said, "No, I want something to drink." Then he said, 

"My stomach hurts, put your hand on my stomach." He always 

thought that when I had my hand on his stomach that he 

felt better. I laid my hand on his stomach, and then he 

got some water with milk to drink, and then he had a second 

bleeding and that was the end. 

WESCHLER: When did he die? 

FEUCHTWANGER: On the same day. No, the next morning, I 


WESCHLER: The twenty-first of December, 1958. 

FEUCHTWANGER: On Saturday, he came to the hospital; on 

Sunday he died, [pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: Where was his funeral? 

FEUCHTWANGER: It was here in Santa Monica. Woodlawn. 

Heinrich Mann was buried there — his grave was right beside 

Heinrich Mann; they had also the same tombstone — and Mrs. 


Heinrich Mann. And the mother of Salka Viertel [Augusta 
Steuermann] was buried there. There was a service. There 
is a little church; only from outside does it look like 
a church. And [Jakob] Gimpel arranged that his brother 
[Bronislaw] who was a violinist and had a quartet with two 
other violinists and a cello ( [George] Neikrug was the 
cellist) — they played Mozart. There were many, many people, 
and some had to stay outside. It was good that it was good 
weather: it was in winter, December, but they could stay 
outside. So many people were there that the whole street 
was full of people. And people we never knew about came, 
also from Jewish associations, Yiddish associations, and 
all wanted to speak at least a few words. But since my 
husband was not a religious person, what you probably re- 
member, so I asked our friend Dr. Max Nussbaum to speak some 
words if he wants, but not as a rabbi, not in his robe. And 
he came and spoke beautifully. And then there was Mr. 
[Stephen] Fritschman, the head of the Unitarians, who spoke 
beautifully, too. So, that was this: those people whom 
he liked very much could speak what he wanted them to speak 
about him. 

WESCHLER: What activities did you pursue during the first 
year, say, after the funeral? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I didn't want to see anybody or meet 
anybody. I didn't even want to go into the garden anymore. 


My husband liked the garden so much, and it was so full of 
flowers always, the rose garden, and between the roses 
were always the seasonal flowers--it was like a carpet. 
It was a famous garden; people came from far away to see 
it, just the garden, from outside, from the road. But then 
I only took care of the watering, and nature took over, 
all the flowering weeds took over. It reminded me a little 
of the garden about which Victor Hugo writes in Les Miserables , 
the garden in "la rue de I'homme mort," "the street of the 
dead man," where the garden is also so full of weeds and is so 
overflowing of flowers in the summer. And so was my garden 

But I didn't like to stay in the garden or the house. 
I always went up in the mountains. Sometimes I climbed 
up, very sheer straight up. Once, it was all sandstone, and 
it gave way; I began to slip down, and I could only find 
a hold on a root which cropped out of the side. But I didn't 
care. I just slipped down, and finally — I didn't slip down 
far enough, it seemed to me. Then I went to the ocean and 
swam until I was tired. 

WESCHLER: How did you gradually come out of your...? 
FEUCHTWANGER : I think it was music which helped me a lot. 
Because there were no writers anymore here and no people with 
which I could communicate. And Mrs. Coe invited me — she 
met me once at a concert, and she invited me for a concert 


for Korngold at her house. And there I met your grand- 
father [Toch] , whom I didn't see very often before, only 
when they had this housewarming. But I heard his music 
always; it was usually in the evening, those gas company 
concerts, those beautiful concerts, or when he was played 
in the Hollywood Bowl. Once I was in the kitchen and my 
husband came and said, "Come and let everything go; come 
and hear Toch's music!" And the steak afterwards was dry, 
not very juicy anymore, but we heard both Toch's music. 
And then Lilly invited me: she was a great help to me. We 
never spoke about it, all those evenings at her house. 
And when I was seventy years old, she made a birthday party 
for me, a big party. 

WESCHLER: It's interesting. The entire time that I've 
known you over the years, I've associated you with the 
incredible night life you lead--you're always out in the 
community and you're doing things all the time--but you 
weren't that way before. 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I never did that before. Of course, when 
my husband was alive, I was always at home with him, be- 
cause when he worked, then he didn't want to go out so 
much. It was a principle for him not to go out two nights 
in a row because he said he cannot work in the morning when 
he is out so long at night. And also he made his research 
at night, usually. I read for him the newspapers and gave 


him the articles to read so he didn't lose too much time. 
Or Time magazine or Newsweek. We had a very bad habit; we 
both read during our meals. But since we did it both, nobody 
was insulted, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Anyway, gradually, I take it, you began to emerge..., 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but mostly I went to concerts. I 
was invited many times to concerts, and so that was the 
beginning. And then I was asked to enter the different 
kinds of associations, like the composers and the conduc- 
tors, and the young musicians and all those things; I be- 
came a member or I was one of the founders or so. So gradually 
I came. Mostly music was [the cause]. 

WESCHLER: You hadn't been that devoted to music before. 
FEUCHTWANGER: I studied piano and also voice, but not 
to be brilliant or so, just to understand music, to have 
more understanding for it. My voice was considered good, 
and my teacher wanted me to go to the opera. But I had 
no inclination to do that. 

WESCHLER: And so it was that which brought you back into 
the community. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I think so. 

WESCHLER: We might say for people who want to read more about 
your relationship with the Tochs that there is a separate 
interview as part of the series which we did on Ernst and 
Lilly which is in the Oral History archives; and they should 


refer to that interview, the whole interview you did on 
that [which is included as an appendix in this volume] . 
One thing which you did not mention on that interview, which 
you have since told me, is the rather eerie fact that 
Ernst. . . . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he died in the same room where my hus- 
band died. Ja. But I didn't tell him or Lilly; she never 
knew that. But for me it was terrible to come there, to 
see him. But do you know also that Pia Gilbert did a lot 
for your grandfather? 

WESCHLER: Why don't you mention that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I met her also mostly through Lilly. And 
she came almost every day to see him. It was also a great 
help for Lilly because she had to do all the necessary things 
what always have to be done for his work and so. And 
Pia came and helped out. We were both also very good friends, 
Ernst Toch and I, and I was instrumental when he got his 
honorary degree from the Hebrew Union College. 
WESCHLER: That topic is covered in more detail in the other 
interview. One thing we just might mention for people who 
don't get a chance to read the other interview is that Toch 
was in turn so influenced by his relationship with you that 
he composed a symphony based on.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I gave him this book, because he was 
always. . . . 


WESCHLER: The Jefta book. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, he was always looking for a plot or a 
story for an opera, and I thought maybe this Jefta would 
interest him. And when he read it — probably you know what 
he wrote me; I give you the letter — he was so very moved 
from this book, and he wanted absolutely to compose an 
opera. But I was not so much.... When he was really in- 
terested in it, I thought it should be rather [pause in 
tape] an oratorium, because I couldn't see people singing 
in Biblical nightgowns (I always called them) . But he was 
so much for opera — he said that was up to the director, and 
he can find the right way to do it. And everywhere where 
he saw me he wrote on a little piece of paper or a matchbook 
or so, "Did you find somebody to write the script for the 
opera?" And then he had to go to Europe. When he left, he 
said, "It's up to you. When I come back, I have to [have] 
the script for the opera Jephta . " 

Then I found Sonja Brown, who wrote already herself. 
She was one of the members and founders of [the Los Angeles 
chapter of the National Association for American] Composers 
and Conductors, and she also wrote plays. I thought her a 
very clever and interesting person. She lived in a big house 
in Bel-Air which was built by Neutra, and had always the 
concerts — musicals and beautiful singers, the best singers 
and musicians in her house. And also the composers of the 


she was very furious and she insulted me greatly, what 
I could understand very well. I was just sitting there and 
letting it rain on me. And then I left. I did what I 
had to do. And then Ernst thought finally he should see 
her also. She had said, "You know, you did that only 
because I'm rich. You would never have done it with some- 
body who is not rich, treated them so badly." I told that 
to Ernst, and he thought he has to go himself. And I 
brought him there — Lilly was afraid — [laughter] I brought 
him there and waited with my car on the road when he had 
to go up a little hill. And then, finally, I think that 
Sonja Brown also recognized that Toch was not so well 
anymore- It was, as he said, a cool setting, but it was 
finally rather friendly, the end of the discussion. And 
then Sonja Brown recognized how she treated me and said that 
I really was very innocent about the whole thing. She 
asked me to forgive her, that she understands that I should be 
angry with her. So she wove for me — she was a weaver — a 
beautiful shawl (you remember it?) . I think she worked a 
whole year on it. And we were all good friends again. But 
she is not well anymore; her mind is gone. She had first 
an operation on a cataract, but then it went on and now her 
mind is gone, so I cannot see her anymore. 

WESCHLER: Well, there is more, as I say, on this other tape 
for people who want to pursue your relations with the Tochs . 


[pause in tape] Some of the other things that directly 
follow the period we've been talking about, we've talked about 
on the earlier tapes--in particular, the way in which the 
library was then donated to USC, and also the events of 
the Bel-Air fire. For those interested in following this 
chronologically, they should go back now and refer to 
those passages which we've already covered. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. [pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: Okay, we were just talking about some notes that 
you left for me a couple weeks ago, about your life after 
Lion's death, and particularly about your relationships 
with animals. In a way, they seem to me a very beautiful 
portrait of what your life was like in those first years. 
You might just read those notes and add whatever thoughts 
you have beyond that. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Isn't it too long? 
WESCHLER: No. Go ahead. 

FEUCHTWANGER: [reading] When I was left alone, I spent 
as much time as possible away from the house. I was not 
interested in the garden anymore in which I had worked 
before as much as possible. It was a garden so full of 
color. Lion had loved to walk through it, through the dif- 
ferent parts — one the foirmal part, with roses and seasonal 
flowers like a carpet. Now I gave only water and let 
nature take over. Every morning I climbed the hills, often 


straight up, so steep that I sometimes was in danger to 
slip down, the sandstone under me crumbling and my hands 
not finding more than a loose root cropping out of the face 
of the hill. (Once the hills under me shook so violently 
that I almost lost balance. Then I saw far to the north 
a mushroomy cloud. It was what seemed to be a detonation 
from a secret experiment in the mountains.) Each morning 
after my climb, I went down to the ocean for a swim, every 
day, rain or shine, cold wind and freezing weather. And 
after swimming until I was exhausted, I jogged several 
miles to dry without using a towel. 

WESCHLER: Was the swimming something you did recently, or 
had you always swum? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, always, I always swam. [continuing 
reading] Near some big rocks, called Eagle Rock, I usually 
met two seals. They were lying in the sun, and when they 
saw me enter the water, they plunged down and accompanied 
me, I between them, and enjoyed themselves. Another time — 
it was very early in the morning--! saw a yellow seal. He 
was motionless. I approached him carefully; he obviously 
was asleep. He woke up and tried to reach the ocean clum- 
sily on his fins, looking back fearfully until he reached 
the water, his element. Now he was not fearful anymore; he 
was laughing at me. He was not yellow either after the 
water washed off the sand. Another time, I saw a rare 


view.... [reading ends] 

WESCHLER: One thing before that. You had mentioned to me 
about your also having dangerous experiences swimming. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I came once into a riptide, and I 
couldn't come back to the shore anymore. I knew that you 
have not to swim straight back: you have to swim diago- 
nal, you know. I remember one man I knew: he came out 
half an hour far from where he started, so strong was the 
riptide. It was when I was almost on the shore — I thought 
I felt already the ground under my feet — but it drew me 
back. Since it was very cold--it was in winter, and the 
water was very cold — so you lose strength: you cannot 
stay so long in the cold water. In summer it doesn't matter: 
you wait; still it's easier to swim, and sometimes it 
changes. But then I became weak, also because I wasn't 
so young anymore either. So I just.... I came near the 
shore when I saw those big waves. I knew from the color 
of the ocean if the wave is big or not. V7hen there came a 
big wave, I turned around and swam out again, diving 
under the wave, and tried to come back on the top of the 
wave. Usually I was successful, but this time the waves 
came so fast that every time — one wave came over me, and I 
wanted to come up. I only saw white foam above me and 
I couldn't get up anymore. And I lost, of course, I couldn't 
breathe. When I finally came up, then the next wave came. 


and I was again dunked down. I just had no time to get a 
breath. I don't know how I came out. Finally I just found 
myself on the shore: it must be that one wave threw me 
out far enough that I could stay on the shore. And there I 
was lying and panting, and then a young man came and said, 
"Pretty rough stuff today." [laughter] And since I was 
already alive, I said, "Oh, I wasn't scared. I knew you 
were here." And then he said, "I cannot swim." So it wasn't 
a great help for me. [laughter] But anyway, I forgot that 
after a while, and then I swam again, and the same happened 
again another time. 

WESCHLER: This was when you were in your seventies.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. Almost eighty, [laughter] And another 
time came again the same thing. So I thought finally — I 
always looked out from my window to see how big the waves 
are, so I don't go down when the waves are too high anymore, 

WESCHLER: So you no longer swim every day. 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, but once, on Christmas — it was a very 
cold Christmas, dank and windy — when I came back from the 
swim near the shores, I saw two policemen standing there 
waiting for me. So I thought maybe I had my car parked the 
wrong way, but I wasn't conscious of that. So when I came 
out, they said, "Oh, we are so glad that you came finally. 
We thought you are a suicide." [laughter] They didn't think 


about saving me, because it was too cold and wet. They 
just waited until the body would come by itself. [laughter] 
WESCHLER: Doubtful possibility, I should think. Well, why 
don't you continue reading the other stories about animals? 
FEUCHTWANGER: [reading] Another time I saw a rare view. I 
always enjoyed the graceful waterfowl, some looking like 
miniature storks, with long spindly legs not bigger than 
matches. They were rather fearless, probably used to me. 
Once a whole flock came to the shore, feeding on invisible 
insects with their long thin beaks. But from far, I saw a 
bird higher than the others. When it reached the land, I 
realized it was two birds, one riding pickaback upon the 
other. Carefully the bearer set himself on the sand so 
the other could come down, and then I saw that it obviously 
had broken one leg. He jumped on the single one and fed, 
away from the others. And I observed the same act every 
day for months. 

In the fish pool, my pride, were three pairs of tropical 
fish, minuscule with big long veils. One pair was black, 
the others gold and pink. I was lucky enough they did not 
perish during the winter. They even bred to reach the 
number of thirty- five. But one morning they all were gone. 
I knew the cats would not have eaten them; they were afraid 

of the water. Then I thought it was the sea gulls, although 
I never saw one beyond the sandy beaches. When the gardener 


came, he said, "For my money it was a coon." A raccoon. 
I went out in the patio at night, and there were two big 
ones grumbling at me and climbing slowly away over the wall. 
Although I was sorry over the loss of my tropical fish, 
the sight of those beautiful animals, with black masks 
around their eyes and black and white thick fur, was a new 
experience. In Germany, the raccoons are called "washbears" 
[Waschbar] ; they seem to wash their food, yet they need the 
water only to soften it. And they came back many times, also 
tearing out the water lilies to find the snails. Once I 
heard a rap at the door of the kitchen patio. There was a 
raccoon sitting upright, begging for food. This he repeated 
every night. After he had eaten, I saw him go into a corner, 
dragging one leg. I found he had torn the screen of an 
opening to the warm water pipes and was lying on them for a 
thermal cure, lying there the whole winter. When it rained, 
I brought. . . . 



SEPTEMBER 26, 1975 and 
SEPTEMBER 30, 1975 

WESCHLER: Marta is just reading us some notes she prepared 
about her years after Lion's death and her relationships 
with, at the moment, raccoons. You told us about the 
one who had a thermal cure by lying by your water pipes. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. He had either a broken leg or a 
badly wounded leg and couldn't walk on the fourth leg, 
so he was trying to cure himself. [continues reading] 
And when it rained, I brought the food, calling it "room 
service." In the summer he came back with his whole 

I sleep on the second floor, and under my window is 
a bay window with a tile roof. One night I heard a com- 
motion. With my flashlight, I saw two raccoons mating. 
And several months later, the mother raccoon gave birth 
to three young ones on the same spot, right under my eyes. 

When I count the stray cats, my ancient turtle, and the 
deer who visit me from time to time, I really am not alone. 
With the deer I have a gentleman's agreement. They used 
to eat my chrysanthemums; they ate three peach trees and 
a fig tree, all full of big fruit. But then I had built 
a trough in the midst of the orange grove, dripping with 
fresh water. There I often saw them drinking in the morning. 


After they had fed on all three of those trees, they left 
the flowers alone. Once — my husband was still alive--we 
were going down to the lower part of the garden on a 
narrow walk. There came a big deer from under the ter- 
race, a newly born fawn on wobbly feet behind it. 

And then there is this other story about the hawk 
which was in fact a falcon. Do you want to hear that, 

WESCHLER: I'd like to hear that. 

FEUCHTWANGER: [no longer reading] I found him under 
the tree. He must have fallen out of his nest. He was 
all legs — he had no feathers yet — and was absolutely 
motionless. But when I took it in my hand, it began to 
shout at me. So I thought it's still alive, and I brought 
it into the house. It was sitting on the back of the 
chair. The cats ran away, full of fear of this terrible 
noise he made, a terrible crawing and shouting. I tried 
to feed it because it was probably still fed by its parents. 
I gave him some white bread soaked in milk, but he spit 
it in my face. Then I bought some brains, which is soft, and 
it did the same. I couldn't imagine what he would like 
to eat; he never ate something. So one day I brought 
some horsemeat for the cats, some chopped meat, and when 
it saw the meat in my hand, it immediately jumped on my 
arm and began to feed and gobbled it up in one second, the 


whole full handful of meat. So I knew finally what was 
his preferred food. He was always sitting in the kitchen 
and began also to fly from one chair to the other. I thought 
he should have a little fresh air, so I took it with me 
outside in the garden; he was sitting on my shoulder and was 
always going with me wherever I went. When I went to 
the orange grove to fertilize the trees, it was sitting there; 
and it only flew to the trough which I had built for the 
deer to drink water and then came back again to my shoulder. 
And it was a long time like that. [One day] we had a big 
party in the patio. I was showing off with my falcon on 
my shoulder, and I went around with him to greet every- 
body. But he only shouted at the people, defended me. He 
was furious; nobody could come near to me . I had to bring 
him back into the kitchen. 

And then one day we went to the orange grove. There 
was a bulldozer in the neighborhood which made a terrible 
noise, and the bird was so frightened that he immediately 
rose high up in the sky. I almost couldn't see it anymore, 
it was so high. I never saw it flying, so I couldn't 
understand that it was so good in flying. He must have 
exercised when I wasn't in the kitchen, [laughter] Anyway, 
he didn't come back anymore. But every time I came from the 
market to the garage, there he was, sitting on the roof of 
the garage, waiting for his meat. So he was still remembering 


me, but he found himself now grown up, and it was not 
necessary to stay in the house. But the horsemeat, he 
still liked it. And so [it was for] a long time. And then 
finally I saw it with a mate. Out of the canyon came two 

WESCHLER: So that makes you a grandmother somewhere. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , probably, [laughter] And they were 
always making their rounds, their circles above me, both 
birds now. And even now I see some, I don't know if they 
are their children, but they make their rounds around the 
house. And always, when I come out, they begin to craw 
and shout, so they recognize me. 
WESCHLER: They've heard tales about Grandma. 
FEUCHTWANGER: It was a very beautiful bird; when it flew, 
then the tail was like a fan, brown with white spots. 
People told me it's a craw falcon. That's all what I 
know, [pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: We've done an awful lot today, but I think to 
close out we can talk a little bit about some people you 
wanted to mention. We've spoken already about some of your 
neighbors on the hill, including Countess Ostheim. But 
you had another set of neighbors. Judge [Justin] Miller 
of the appellate court in Washington, and you might tell 
us a little bit about them. 
FEUCHTWANGER: They were right around the bend. They had 


also a Spanish house, a very beautiful house, with a 
big garden. I took care of the garden when they were in 
Washington. I just watered the roses; there was nothing 
else to do. They gave great parties always, and they 
invited the so-called VIPs. There was Mayor [Fletcher] 
Bowron and lots of clerical people, the archbishop. 
Everyone who had a name was invited there. The funny 
thing was that she liked my dress so much that once she sent 
me back to my house--! had a new dress, and she said, "No, 
I want you with the same dress you came last year." It 
was a kind of narrow coat, a white narrow coat with white 
pants. Then of course, when we had our invitations, 
our parties, we invited them. And they met quite another 
crowd here. They were very much intrigued with those they 
met at our parties; she told me [that it was] the first time 
she met Thomas Mann here, and Charlie Chaplin, and Will 
Durant, and then Walter Duranty, who was a great reporter 
in Russia during the war. He was during the whole war in 
Russia, and he was a friend of the Ambassador Davies 
(whom Lion met in Russia and who wrote Mission to Moscow ) . 
Duranty himself wrote also a book praising Russia during 
the war. And both of them were, of course, for my husband 
very interesting, because he liked to hear his impression 
verified. And the Huxleys also came to our parties. [So 
these were just not the kind of people the Millers met in 


Washington, of course. And this was every year, these 
parties. And then one year, I knew from the commotion, 
from the cars which came up, the caterers and so, that they 
had prepared another party, but we were not invited. And 
it was during the McCarthy time. Because many people who 
were at our house were always in the newspapers as 
Communist fellow travelers, like Chaplin. Even Thomas 
Mann was one of them; he was called a dupe of the Commu- 
nists. And Bertolt Brecht. So we were not invited anymore. 
And I didn't tell my husband that there was a party going 
on; he never heard that. I thought he would be hurt, 
because we had those good relations with them. 

The first time that I knew about them was when Justice 
Miller came to our door and brought a book. It turned out 
that he was in Berlin, under Truman, after the ending of 
the war. Truman sent him to Berlin to work on the radio 
there, to distribute the radio waves for the whole Europe; 
it had to be done from there. And he was trusted by Truman. 
So he was interested also to see a Nazi home, one of the 
big Nazis. And there he went to the library and looked 
what kind of books those people read. And there, in a 
very prominent part of the library, was the book of my 
husband, Jud Siiss . He said he took it out and wanted to 
bring it to my husband. That was the only thing he brought 
from Germany. And we were very happy about it, because we 


had no early editions, no first editions of my husband's 
books — they were all burned and lost — and this was from 
50,000 to 100,000, one of the earliest. Also it was in- 
teresting because it had a very beautiful envelope--the 
jacket — which in a very artistic way is portraying Jud 
Siiss . And that is the only book which maybe exists with 
this jacket. So that's when our friendship began. And it 
would have hurt my husband very much that we were not 
invited anymore. 

And then something happened: the daughter [Susi] 
who lived here alone when they were in Washington, she was 
a divorcee; her husband left her already when they were 
still in college, with a child. She was a very unhappy 
young girl. And one day she called me and said she has 
to speak with me. No, she called me at night, at 
three o'clock in the night, and said, "You know, I'm bleed- 
ing terribly — I don't know what happened — and I need some 
help." So I called immediately my doctor, who lived in 
Beverly Hills, because here there were no doctors in 
Pacific Palisades in those days. The doctor came right 
away, and he said she has to go immediately to the hospital 
in Santa Monica. We brought her there, and he operated on 
her and saved her life. It was very funny because after- 
wards, when the daughter told her mother [May Merrill 
Miller] about this whole thing, the mother said that my 


husband helped her to exist as a writer and I have saved 

the life of her daughter. 

WESCHLER: How was it that your husband helped her to 

exist as a writer? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Because after she had published this book. 

First the Blade.... In the beginning it seemed a great 

success, and then came out Gone with the Wind and this 

took the interest from her — Gone with the Wind, [Margaret] 

Mitchell's book. 

WESCHLER: Right. What was First the Blade ? That was 

about California, wasn't it? 

FEUCHTWANGER: It was about California, the first settlers, 

and also very interesting about the politics of that time. 

So she was discouraged because first it looked like a great 

success but was then so subdued by Mitchell's book. And 

then she came to my husband and asked him if she should 

continue to write another book. But later, when she was 

ill and I was visiting her, she had forgotten everything 

about this, that her book has been published before Mitchell's and 

she even said that my husband was instrumental for her book 

that it has been published. Maybe she wanted to believe 

it like that. Her husband died in his eighties, just 

after Nixon had invited him for his inauguration. 

WESCHLER: Well, that will kill you every time. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. [laughter] But she gave a party, and she 


said, "You know, both my legs have been amputated." I had 
heard that by a composer who is a teacher at Mt. St. Mary's 
College [Matt Doran] but since she didn't tell me, I was not 
sure if she wanted me to know it. So I never did anything, 
and I didn't call her. The she called and said, "I want to 
give a party, and I would very much like to have you as my 
guest of honor." I had another appointment, but I canceled 
it because I wanted to see her, since I knew how terrible sick 
she was. And when I came, I was the only guest; nobody else 
came. The daughter met me in the garden — they had a beautiful 
big garden with a little lake and lots of fruit trees. And 
when I came in, it was rather grotesque: the wallpaper was 
pink with flowers, everything, the bed was pink (there was a 
four-poster bed), and even the telephone was pink, the sheets 
— everything was pink. And also the dressing room was pink. 
She looked very well, and she said, "You know, you probably 
would think I would have white hair like you have, and I 
have also, but I'm blond!" She was so pleased that I came, 
and she spoke again about what happened in those days. And 
I told her, "Don't you remember that my husband wrote 
about your book in his last essay. The House of Desdemona ?" 
And she said, "No, I didn't know about it." I brought her 
several paperbacks because I knew that she had a lot of 
grandchildren. Then she opened the book and looked in the 
index, saw her name, and read what my husband wrote about 


her. And tears came to her eyes, just for happiness. 
She said, "You know that today is my eighty-first birth- 
day, and this is the best that I could imagine, the best 
present. You made me so happy." She didn't want me to 
leave, and she said that always she [will] read it again. 
And two days later her daughter called me and said she 
died of happiness. Two days later, she called. 
WESCHLER: Just this week? 
FEUCHTWANGER: This week, ja. 
WESCHLER: That's an amazing story. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, and she didn't suffer, she was just so 
happy. The next day she was only speaking about what was 
in this book, [pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: Just before we finish for today, you've been 
telling about some of the other people who lived on the 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, there are 1 ts of important people 
here. There was first Dean [Howard] Wilson from the 
Department of Education at UCLA; he was a great man, a 
great educator. He was a very good friend of mine; I 
was often there. He gave a party for Christmas just when 
my husband died. I had to write a letter that he cannot 
come. But then the dean died also after a while, and I'm 
still a good friend of his widow. There is Fawn Brodie 
who lives there, who wrote this last biography about 


Jefferson. I think it's called "The Sex Life of Jefferson." 
WESCHLER: Jefferson , An Intimate History . It isn't quite 
as blatant as "The Sex Life of Jefferson," but.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, [laughter] that's true, it's a best 
seller; she was also the [Los Angeles Times ] Woman of the 
Year last time. 
WESCHLER: What is she like? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, she's a beautiful person, tall, with 
beautiful children. Her husband [Bernard] is professor: 
for a long time he worked for the Rand company, for the 
think tank; but then it seems to me that the whole direc- 
tion he didn't like anymore, so he is now professor again 
at UCLA. And she also teaches history. Before she wrote 
a book about the Mormons. She herself is from a Mormon 
family, and she wrote about [Joseph] Smith, the founder 
of the Mormons [No Man Knows My Story ] . She is now a 
grandmother already, but she looks very beautiful, and she 
has a great talent for gardening. 

WESCHLER: They have been here a long time, in other words? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, a long time. 
WESCHLER: Were they friends of Lion, too? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Friends — you cannot say friends, because 
we didn't see them [that much]: we were once at a party 
at their house, and they were once at a party at our house. 
But it's too much to call that "friends." But very often 


she was standing on the rim of her garden when we jogged 
down, when we came down from our jogging. And then she 
spoke with my husband. I was always very impatient because 
my husband should have his breakfast before the secretary 
comes. I didn't want him to rush his breakfast, you know, 
because after the swimming and jogging, he had his shower 
first. And in his showers he said he always has his 
best thoughts and best ideas. So I always said, "We have 
to go home, you have to go home," and she didn't like me 
at all. She told me so the other day.... There was 
a party at Mr. [Rudy] Brook's, who also lives here. He 
was also from Germany. He. was a lawyer in Germany, and here 
he began as a gardener. He studied landscaping, and then, 
with the money he earned with landscaping, he became a real 
estate man. He became a rather rich man and built a 
beautiful house up there. And he gave a party for me, one 
of the parties when I was eighty. And there was also Mrs. 
Brodie, and she spoke. Everybody made a little speech about 
me, and she told me that I always insisted that my husband 
has to go home to breakfast when she wanted to speak with 
him. [laughter] 

And there is Lament Johnson, who is one of the most 
important directors of the movies and theater and tele- 
vision. He made a lot of movies at Channel 28 [KCET] , and 
also he directed a play by Shaw at the Mark Taper theater. 


And he made this beautiful — one can't say beautiful; it's 
a great movie. The Execution of Private Slovik . He 
showed it to his friends from the hill, and I was also one 
of them. 

WESCHLER: He also made The Missiles of October . 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, the Kennedy story. Yes, and he is very 
interested also in politics. I can say that he helped 
[Marvin] Braude. It was Braude who began his career as 
councilman here on this hill. He was a first-time can- 
didate for councilman, and he spoke, and we all found that 
his views were very liberal and interesting to all of us. 
But the only thing was he didn't look — he is not a big 
man, you know, he doesn't look much, and also he had a lit- 
tle pipsie speaking voice. So Lamont Johnson, who is a 
director, told him how to speak; I think he gave him even 
lessons. And it was absolutely the turning point in 
Braude ' s career because from then on he was a good speaker. 
And I also had a chance to help him — at least he wrote me 
a letter and recognized that — because I found that he 
was really the one whom we would like to have. I had a 
lot of friends in Venice here, and, you know, Venice is a 
very — I should speak about Venice, one day, because that's 
a very interesting colony there, those people who live 
there. I knew a lot of people who live rather poorly, but 
they have much interest for everything of culture. They 


even had monthly evenings for literature. 
WESCHLER: Are these groups mainly Americans? 
FEUCHTWANGER: They are emigrated, but long ago; some came 
from England, some were Negroes, and some came from Russia 
during the Revolution, or even earlier after those big 
pogroms in 1905. How I met them was the most funny thing. 
I got a phone call from the Emma Lazarus Society. Did 
you ever hear about it? Emma Lazarus is the woman who wrote 
this beautiful poem at the Statue of Liberty, and this is 
a club here. And they called me as the widow of Lion 
Feuchtwanger and invited me for a picnic up on the Pali- 
sades [Ocean Avenue, Santa Monica]. It is a stunning 
view there; it's one of the most beautiful views of the 
world. And there you can sit on the grass or on tables and 
have a picnic. So they invited me there for a picnic. I 
thought that at the picnic, everybody has to bring something, 
but when I came there, they didn't allow me to take it out 
of my car. They said, "You are invited; you are our guest." 
And there I met all those people who are interested in 
literature who all live in Venice. It's a city — it's a 
country by itself, you could say. And from then on I 
have been invited many times to several houses. They 
had literary evenings once a month, and everybody had 
for the next time to read a book--they could steal it or 
get it from the library, but they had to have read this book— 


and then there was a discussion about this book. And once 
they read the book 'Tis Folly To Be Wise of my husband. 
And when I came to one of these evenings — I have to tell 
you--it was a doctor, a very old man, and his wife, and 
they were sitting, all these old people around. They all 
looked almost dead, almost motionless, when I came. And 
then came the discussion. And then everybody came alive. 
Everybody had his word to say. And one old lady she 
really told me what I should know about my husband's 
book, what was not right in it, and even if he is a great 
writer, he made mistakes. It was very amusing always, 
mostly because they were so old, how they came alive when 
they spoke about literature. And those people I brought 
to Braude. I told Braude , "You know, there is a country 
you don't know here, and that is Venice. Nobody knows 
about it. There are the most intellectual people there, 
even if they are poor, and they have no man who is really 
taking care of them. They always claim that they are the 
forgotten people. They are neglected, the whole thing; 
the canals there are dirty and so." And I said, "You come 
with me; I have a lot of people. They are in little houses, 
but they are neighbors; everybody knows each other. You 
speak there at a house, and the next week you will be in- 
vited in other houses. You will go over the whole Venice; 
you will have your adherents." And that was really — he 


was elected. And he wrote me a letter and he said he owes 
me.... I don't know if he did it only to make a nice ges- 
ture to me or write a nice letter, but he said that he owes 
me a great lot that he has been elected. 

WESCHLER: You and the Venice universe. Have you continued 
to be satisfied with his representation? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, yes, very much. He and [Edmund] Edelman 
are the best, I think. But this goes on, because when Mayor 
[Tom] Bradley was the first time [here] , he had also a meet- 
ing at the house of the Brodies . And I met him there. I 
don't say that it was as with Mr. Braude, but it helped a 
lot because everybody has a big circle. And I had also the 
Lappens, for instance--Chester Lappen, you know--who live 
in the house of Thomas Mann. He is a friend of Mayor Bradley, 
and I have a picture with Bradley and the Chester Lappens 
and I at the Allegro Ball. Bradley comes every time to the 
Allegro Ball because the Chester Lappens are one of the 
sponsors there. He comes, whatever happens — if he's late 
he still comes. Once he came in a very funny outfit because 
it was a double dare or something, [laughter] But he is 
there. So we make politics here. 

WESCHLER: I was going to say that this is the Paseo Miramar 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, absolutely. We try it at least. [laughter] 
And then Lament Johnson had a meeting for Tom Hayden and Jane 


Fonda. So we do our best. We are good citizens; you can 

say that. And I am not only a good citizen, I am kind of 

a pioneer woman because I planted so many orange trees. 

So we did everything what we can to be good citizens, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Well, I think we'll stop on that note for today. 

SEPTEMBER 30, 1975 

WESCHLER: Today, just to finish out this side of the tape, 
we have a few stories from things we didn't cover previously 
which we wanted to talk about. One of them concerns a Dutch 
man, who was a gardener among other things, but who had a 
rather extraordinary life in his own right. You might tell 
us about him. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he was a brother-in-law of a friend of 
mine, and afterwards I'll tell you a story of this friend 
of mine. He was head of an oil company in one of the 
South Sea islands, and he had 4 50 workmen under his 

WESCHLER: What was his name? DeBour? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, he was the brother-in-law. 
WESCHLER: Oh, I see, it doesn't matter, go ahead. 
FEUCHTWANGER: But I can find out the name because he was 
a gardener for a while here [Weber] . He only could come 
into this country when the Nazis invaded Holland if he was 
ready to work in an agriculture job or in the fields as a 


worker. So he chose gardening. And he came here; he has 
been recommended to me by neighbors here that he is such 
a good gardener. And it was true that he was a good scien- 
tific gardener--he studied gardening — but he was not very 
good in practical [work] . Most of all he was not used to 
working with a fork and a shovel and all that. I usually 
sent him home and told him, "I think today we have done 
everything." And I paid him [for] the day or something, not 
to offend him, but he looked so tired always that I couldn't 
stand it. And one day he was even more tired than ever; then 
he said he is feeling very bad, that he was at the doctor, 
and that he couldn't find anything. He said he must have 
eaten something, or had a kind of blood poisoning. And 
since I know all those things of gardening, I asked him if he 
had sprayed some flower bushes against the aphids . I said, 
"Maybe you inhaled something. Don't do it anymore. Drink 
some buttermilk, eat lots of fruit, and just take a rest. 
Maybe it will be better." And when he came back he said 
that now he is a new person, because he felt better such a 
long time already. Usually when I sprayed, I had always a 
gas mask. I bought a gas mask from those army surplus. 
WESCHLER: You must have been quite a sight. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. And I always fell down because I was 
blinded by my own breath. It is a hill; so I always fell 
around, [laughter] 


WESCHLER: So who were these people? Who was DeBour? 
FEUCHTWANGER: His brother-in-law is Mr. [Robert] DeBour. 
He died in the meantime. He was a very good painter, mostly 
a sculptor, and he lived on the top of the hill with his 
wife [Lucille Brokaw] who is also a great artist. She does 
what they call cousage; that means that she sews pieces 
of materials together and makes beautiful things — enormous 
birds, the zodiac and all those astronomical symbols. Every 
year she has an exhibition at a La Cienega gallery [Gallery 
Benartz] , and [she gets] the best reviews by Seldis. She is 
really a great artist. And it is also a great experience be- 
cause all the people of the hill are there, meeting each 
other and enjoying to see her beautiful things. And her hus- 
band' was a man who came here also from Holland, to flee the 
Nazis. He was a Catholic; he didn't have to flee, but he 
helped so many Jews going over the border that he wasn't 
secure anymore. Since he was a sculptor and a painter, he 
also knew a lot about mixing paints so he made for the Jews 
passports to go around at night and have the possibility to 
go over the border. Those were Nazi passports, Nazi papers, 
and you had to have a red stamp. So he mixed the color exact- 
ly like it was in the original and cut the stamps. And 
before he died, he gave me all those documents and also the 
rubber stamp he made himself. 
WESCHLER: And you still have that here in the collection 


somewhere . 

FEUCHTWANGER: I still have that here. I can show you. 
WESCHLER: How many people did he save? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He saved about 200 people, he said. And he 
was many times arrested. Many times those people gave him 
their money for safekeeping, and he was suspected that he 
had money from those people. But he always had it hidden 
very well, and every time he could talk himself out. But 
finally he knew that he couldn't. It was not safe anymore 
for him to stay. So he came to America. 

WESCHLER: You were mentioning that there was some kind of 
reception or something that was held at the Temple Isaiah? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, for those people who helped the Jews, 
there was a great ceremonial evening. I had to speak there 
and also speak about my experiences with French people who 
helped us. I got a lot of letters after that. For instance, 
a lady, who died in the meantime (her husband owned a radio 
station here — Mrs. Maizlich; maybe you know the name, the 
Maizliches--they built also this big building on the 
ocean, the enormous building on the otean at the corner of 
Chautauqua) , wrote me a letter; she said she was moved 
to tears for what I told. But the most important thing was 
that a lot of money came in for--they were called the righ- 
teous people. They needed help, and that's why the whole thing 
was arranged. And everybody got a plaque so they knew that 


they were not forgotten. 

One man, who was also a reverend in Holland [John 
Henry Weidner] , he and his father, he did the same thing. 
They went to Lyon in France and opened a store there, so 
it wouldn't be so obvious when there are people coming in and 
out. And the people whom they saved from Holland, who could 
go over the border, finally they gathered there. The older 
people have been sent from there to Switzerland, and the 
younger people should try to go through Spain as well as they 
could. And he was arrested by the Nazis three times. The 
first two times he only was beaten and released because they 
had no proof; they only had suspicion. But the third time it 
seems that they had more proof, and now they said they will 
kill him; they beat him so terrible that his skull was 
broken. But one of the Nazis couldn't stand it anymore: 
at night, he took him out and brought him to a hospital. 

It was a Nazi, but he just couldn't stand it anymore. And 
from then on, he has a silver plate on his skull. He is now 
in Pasadena and has a supermarket; he married an American 
lady. I met him at the Israeli consulate. And then he 
wrote a big book about this whole transactions with the 
Jews, and he sent me the book, an enormous book. 
WESCHLER: We can get the title of that book later on. [pause 
in tape] Okay, we did a whole series of animal stories last 
session, and in the meantime you remembered one other story 


which concerns a skunk. 

FEUCHTWANGER: There was a tame skunk — I never had seen before 
a skunk, I didn't even know what one was; I never heard the 
name. But when we arrived here to this house, one of the 
first nights I smelled a terrible smell, and I couldn't 
imagine [what it was] . I went around and thought it is some 
gas line broken. I called the gas company and said there is 
a terrible smell in the house, that I'm afraid it could 
explode because the smell is so strong. And they sent — 
really in the middle of the night — they sent a man, and he 
inspected every line and every gas opening, the pilots and 
so, and finally he said, "For my money, it's a skunk." And 
he laughed. I said, "I'm terribly sorry, but what is a skunk?" 
He said, "It is a little animal, it's black and white, and 
they stink." I was so sorry that I made him come in the 
middle [of the night], but he said, "That's for what we are 
there." He was very kind. And that was my first experience 
with a skunk. 

The second time--the cats were always around when we 
had our dinner. They came to the landing of the stair which 
goes down into the garden, and there they had also their 
dinner. And when they were finished, they jumped on the top 
of the landing and washed themselves like they do after 
having a good dinner. But then we heard something coming up 
the stairs: Dup-dup-dup-dup — not very loudly. The cats 


looked but they didn't — usually they get frightened or so, 
but they just ignored what happened. And then we saw a 
skunk coming up. It was the most beautiful sight I ever 
have seen. It had a thick tail, very bushy, feathery black 
and white. I remembered that as a young child I had a fur 
collar which was called skunk, so it must have been the same 
thing. It found something which was left over from the cat, 
and it began to eat; but in the same time, it danced around 
the dish because it always wanted to be ready to shoot with 
its odors when somebody came. (He can only shoot when he is 
showing the back to his adversary.) So he turned always around 
to be sure that he has always his back against the cats or 
whatever would happened to be. 

WESCHLER: What were the cats doing at this point? 
FEUCHTWANGER: The cats just ignored it. They continued to 
wash themselves and just ignored it. They must have known 
something could happen; anyway, they didn't do anything to the 
little animal. Then, when it has eaten, then it went away 
again. Looked very satisfied. 

And one day I had the door opened to the landing, 
and it must have gone through the kitchen; everything was 
opened so I could give a good airing to the kitchen. It 
must have gone down the stairs to the wine cellar because 
my husband went down, too, and when he came up, he met the 
skunk on the stair. They looked each other in the eye, and 


no one dared to move. My husband knew now, from now on, 
because I told him from this experience of the first time; 
so he just didn't move, with his bottle in his hand, and 
the skunk didn't move because he was afraid of my husband. 
But finally my husband, who was very courageous, thought, 
"I can't stay the whole night here," and he advanced and 
went up, and the skunk passed him by, and nothing happened. 
He didn't want to ruin his ticket, probably. 
WESCHLER: You don't spray in the hand that feeds you. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, that's it. [laughter] And then, another 
time, the mother cat has vanished, didn't come anymore to 
eat. I couldn't imagine what it was because the cats always 
came with us. When we went up the hill for jogging, they 
ran with us jogging--sometimes three cats, the mother and 
the two young ones. And they came back always, but this time, 
the mother wasn't there. I put some milk outside; in those 
days there were no peonle here, and I thought maybe she 
would find something to eat when she comes back. And the 
milk was gone; it wasn't there anymore. But I didn't know: 
was it the other cats, or was it the skunk? Anyway, we 
made another time, we jogged again, and up on the hill we 
passed the house of Justice Miller. And out came the cat. 
It just was inside, the whole time, about two weeks. It 
came, very happy to see us. I took it on my arm, and I felt 
a faint smell of skunk. So this cat must have had a fight with 


a skunk and was ashamed to smell so badly. He didn't want 
to stay in our house; instead he went and stunk up the 
Millers' house, who were in Washington. And when it was 
better, then it came out to meet us for going with us for 
a walk, [laughter] [pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: Okay, one last animal story concerns another 
dangerous creature, a rattlesnake. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that was the most dangerous of all. Our 
first encounter with rattlesnakes came when we were lying 
in the sun. Lion and I, after he took a little lunch and 
until he wanted to begin again to work. All of a sudden, I 
saw our cats going around in circles with their fur standing 
high up, you know, very much like they are only when they 
are afraid. It looked like — I never saw them like that 
in this situation. At the same time, I heard a funny noise. 
I thought at first it is a water pipeline which is broken, be- 
cause it was so continuous a noise. But I looked up at 
what the cats are [doing] and then I saw a big rattlesnake, a 
very big rattlesnake. The cats went around in circles, and 
the rattlesnake was ready to jump. Always the tongue went in 
and out very fast; it moved very fast. And I didn't know — 
I heard about rattlesnakes before, but I had never seen one 
(we were not long here yet) . And so what should I do? I 
called the police. First I called the operator and said, 
"Mr. Operator, I think it's a rattlesnake in my garden. What 


shall I do?" And he said, "Oh, that's easy. I'll call 
the police." So he called the police, and the police came 
very fast, with sirens on; they came and said, "What's 
happened?" I said, "Here is a rattlesnake." "Oh, we get 
her, we get a premium on it, three dollars. I imagine 
you don't want her, so we would like to have her." I 
said, "Of course, I'm glad if you can get rid of it." And 
they shot at her, but they didn't get her [at first]. Finally 
they must have wounded her; she went into a bush slowly, 
and then they shot again, and finally they really found 
her dead there. They took her out and said they never 
for a very long time saw such a big rattlesnake. It had 
nine rattles. Then they said, "You know what you should 
do? You should buy yourself a gun and shoot the rattle- 
snakes yourself." I said, "I'm more afraid of guns than 
of rattlesnakes." [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Did you have any other encounters with rattle- 

FEUCHTWANGER : And then, a second time: it was much later, 
not so long ago, maybe, ten years ago. There was very 
near to the house a rattlesnake on the steps when I went 
up from the garden. And I didn't know what to do. It 
was all in my way there. So I took a big — I knew there 
are different ways to get a rattlesnake, because people 
told me about it. You have to have a shovel, and hit 


it behind the head. But I didn't have the shovel right 
there, and I didn't think that the rattler would wait 
until I found one. I saw a big rock very near, and I 
heaved the rock, just let it fall on the head — and really 
the rattlesnake was dead. Very fast. And then I knew 
that Mr. DeBour always liked to make pictures of animals 
and rare plants — sometimes he came--and also of branches 
which were bent in a funny way. So I called him and 
said, "You know, I have just killed a rattlesnake. Would 
you like to make a photo of it?" He said, "I'm right 
down." So he came, and he made a photo, and I can show you 
the photo. I was holding the rattlesnake on the.... 


SEPTEMBER 30, 1975 

WESCHLER: Continuing with rattlesnakes. So there's a 
wonderful photo of you holding a rattlesnake by the tip 
of her tail. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, and it has also nine rattles. The 
photo's in color, and I look very sad, because I always 
am sad when I see a dead animal. 
WESCHLER: Even when you've killed it. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, even when I killed it. But I killed 
it because it is necessary: There are young children 
around, and you have to do that. But the funny thing is 
that for a while I had a lot of other snakes in the garden, 
very beautiful — orange, yellow, and black rings around the 
body. And those are the king snakes who eat the rattle- 
snakes. I heard that they have been imported from Australia 
against the rattlesnakes, because there was a great plague 
before here of the rattlesnakes. And I had two--I told 
you about this trough which I built for the deer; and there, 
under the trough, I saw always the king snakes, because 
they liked the dampness there. And once I saw a king 
snake which had just caught a rattlesnake. It was awful to 
look at it: it was not bigger than the rattlesnake — it was 
about the same size, rather smaller. But they begin with 


the head — they begin to swallow the head first, and then 
they swallow the whole day. Slowly, slowly the rattle- 
snake goes down, and finally the king snake looks very 
fat because he has the whole rattlesnake in his body. But 
it took a whole day until it has swallowed. 

And then I had this funny experience also with a 
gopher, you know, those gophers who eat the roots of 
plants. And I had a beautiful plant there: it was rhodo- 
dendron. I was always so proud of these red flowers. And 
one day I saw the rhododendron move--move down, down, down, 
into the earth, until it was vanished. And then I found 
out it was a gopher who made a tunnel there. He must have 
liked the root of the rhododendron. Anyway, he took the 
whole thing down. And the next day I saw a gopher snake — 
that's another snake; they are harmless — going into the hole, 
and taking revenge of my rhododendron. 

And once I went up the hill — that was when we lived 
still in the house of the Goes. There was a very wild hill 
which had no real street; it was only a very narrow 
path. And I was a little too long up there, because it was 
a very beautiful sunset. It begins very fast to get night 
here; there is no sundown. So I was running because I 
would have lost my way in the wilderness if I had no daylight. 
But all of a sudden across the small path I saw a rattle- 
snake, in the last rays of the sun. It was very steep 


on one side down and on the other side up, so I couldn't 
go around the rattlesnake. So here I was, and the rattle- 
snake was in the middle, and I didn't know what to do. I 
didn't dare to step over it, and there was no big stone 
there to smash it. So I just took some dirt from the 
mountainside, and threw it against the rattlesnake. And 
he didn't like that, getting it in his eyes. So, anyway, 
it went away, and I could go home, [laughter] 
WESCHLER: Well, all these stories do help to give a sense 
of the rusticness of what life was like out here in the 
Palisades in those days. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja, that's true, [pause in tape] 
WESCHLER: Okay, well, that takes care of animals at the 
Feuchtwangers ' . We do have one other story to tell about 
the McCarthy era which occurred to you over the weekend, 
a rather interesting story about a young woman. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. Once I was at a dance evening at UCLA, 
and there was a young woman sitting beside me. She asked 
me rather shy if she heard correctly that I am Mrs. Lion 
Feuchtwanger . She told me that she read the novel of my 
husband. Proud Destiny , and she was always amazed that 
somebody coming from another country grasped so well the 
image of Franklin. And then she looked rather sad and shy. 
But we had a nice conversation together--of course, I liked 
to hear what she said. And I forgot about it entirely. 


After a while, several days later, she called me and 
said she had found confidence in me; she wanted to ask 
me something, and it's very urgent. I had a very tight 
schedule, but it seemed to me really that she needed me, 
so I made an appointment with her at a coffee shop. She 
didn't want to come to my house — she didn't want to meet 
my husband, it seemed — anyway, I met her there. Then she 
told me that she is from a very strict Mormon family, and 
she married a young man when she was still at college, 
against the wish of her parents; and they never came, her 
parents. But her husband left her very soon, and with a 
little boy. And her parents never forgot that she married 
so foolhardily, and that she now had a child, while they 
had had better plans for her future. And she felt al- 
ways very unhappy at home. But she couldn't go to work 
because she had the child to take care of. Her father had 
to travel a lot, and her mother went with him most of the 
time, and she was alone and lonely, so she had an affair, 
and now she is again with child — and if I could help her. 
She didn't cry. It was worse: she trembled. She said she 
cannot tell her parents, and I was afraid she would do away 
with herself. So I gave her an advice, although I was 
rather afraid to do it. This advice I got in France, and 
that was to take quinine tablets, and this usually would 
help. And she wanted to do it.... 


WESCHLER: What were quinine tablets used for ordinarily? 
FEUCHTWANGER: They are usually against malaria. In 
Europe they are very easily to get, because in Italy every- 
body has to take them always, in those days at least. They 
were free even — against malaria, for poor people. And I 
even bought it for her so she wouldn't get suspected. 

It worked all too well because one night she called 
me and said she is in terrible pain and has lost a lot of 
blood and I should come. Immediately I went to her. I 
called a doctor whom I found in the Yellow Pages, and he 
said she has to go to the hospital. There was not time 
anymore to call an ambulance, so he took her right away 
in his car. He carried her — she was tiny, and he could 
carry her — and he brought her to the hospital. And there — 
I had to pay for the stay and so, and I made those neces- 
sary arrangements. He came then out from her room and 
complained to me that she wouldn't tell him anything. But 
I had forbidden her to tell him whatever it is; not a word 
she could say, because we would both go to jail. He said, 
"But I have to know. Couldn't you ask her?" And I said, 
"If she doesn't tell you, she wouldn't tell me either." 
But finally he gave in; he could save her, and she was 
all right. But I couldn't tell you how terrible this 
experience was; it was the most frightful thing because 
I didn't know how it would end. I was afraid something could 


I have to tell you something. We were once on a mountain, 
not a very high mountain, just to have a little vacation. 
We went out, and we saw a kind of shepherd girl taking care 
of the cattle there. She lived in a little hut. She 
had red hair, and there were about eleven children around 
her playing, and they had all red hair. My husband said, 
"Your husband is probably in the war." But she said, 
"Oh, no, I have no husband. You know, it's always so dark 
when they come through the window, I don't even know who 
it was." [laughter] That was so common in Bavaria; in 
this Catholic and very pious Bavaria, they had so many 
illegitimate children there. 

WESCHLER: Was there a stigma against illegitimate chil- 

FEUCHTWANGER: Not with the peasants, less than in the 
city, because many of the peasants liked to have illegit- 
imate children. A child, a boy, was very precious for them, 
He later on helped them in their farms, and they didn't 
have to have so many farmhands. So it was known that 
many boys who were from very rich farmers tried out the 
girl first before they married, to know if she can have a 
boy. And the funny thing was that when they went then 
to church, their children — the first child, at least — went 
behind the bride, [laughter] They're all very funny things 
what happened in Bavaria. 


WESCHLER: How about abortions in Berlin? Did they seem 
to be more common? 

FEUCHTWANGER: In Berlin, everybody knew that it happened. 
But it was a thing very expensive mostly. And it didn't 
happen — the people didn't have it so much. They just 

WESCHLER: And in Sanary was there...? 

FEUCHTWANGER: In France, yes, it was more. I also knew 
a woman who did it always. That's why I knew about the 
quinine. I helped also one of the emigres with that. 
She was not Jewish, but she came to me . I knew her hus- 
band. She came to me and said they cannot afford a child. 
Her husband was Jewish and she not, and it seemed to me that 
she had an affair outside of her marriage. So the only 
thing was to do the same. And I brought her then. At 
night her husband came to me and said, "What a terrible 
timing!" (He didn't know that it was probably a child from 
another man.) It was in the middle of the night, and I 
brought her to Toulon to a hospital; it was two hours with 
the car. So at the last moment, she was saved. So I 
had quite an experience. I don't want to be reminded any- 
more. That's the last time I speak about it. [laughter] 
WESCHLER: Just very quickly, were there a good deal of 
abortions taking place in Los Angeles which you knew of? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Not in Los Angeles, I wouldn't know. They 


usually called it appendectomy or something, but I was 
sometimes suspicious of "appendectomy." 
WESCHLER: People kept on losing their appendixes. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja . [laughter] But I wouldn't know any- 
thing for sure. I suspected sometimes, [pause in tape] 
WESCHLER: One last thing that you wanted to mention about 
the McCarthy era is some consolation. . . . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, the only thing was to turn on the radio, 
In the afternoon, about six o'clock or so, it was Edward 
Morgan from the labor unions, I think, their best speaker. 
And then one of the great men there was Edward R. Murrow: 
he had a beautiful voice, and he was really like a priest 
who gives consolation to a sinner, when we heard him, be- 
cause he was so courageous. There was another one who had 
very much courage, and that was William Winter, who still 
has a radio station, [pause in tape] 
WESCHLER: Okay, today seems to be a day when we're 
rounding out loose ends, and one theme which we can cover 
in a little bit more depth is how musicians have passed 
through this house. In particular just now you told me 
a wonderful story about [Mitslav] Rostropovitch. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, first I must tell you that Bruno 
Walter was here and played on the organ. He was the only 
person, except Hanns Eisler--and I, of course, for myself — 
who played on the organ. 


WESCHLER: You played the organ yourself? 

FEUCHTWANGER : No, only for myself; it's nothing special. 
But Bruno Walter played. And Hanns Eisler came when my 
husband had his seventieth birthday; he composed a little melody 
for him and played it on the organ. That was one thing 
which had to do with music in our house. 

WESCHLER: Did Bruno Walter come frequently to play the 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, he was only once here. He didn't go out 
very much then. And then once there called Rostropovitch. 
We knew about him, of course, but it was his first visit 
here. He called, but he couldn't speak neither English 
nor German; so his accompanist, the pianist, who spoke 
German, called for him and invited us both to his concert. 
It was still in the old Pershing [Square] , you know, where 
the Philharmonic was then. My husband didn't feel well, and 
he said he's very sorry he cannot come. And then Rostro- 
povitch came with the pianist and his cello and wanted 
to play here, for Lion. Unfortunately we had only the 
organ and no piano, so the pianist was very sorry. But 
we were not sorry when Rostropovitch played Bach for us , 
which didn't need any piano. And for a whole hour for my 
husband, he played only Bach. And when he had finished, 
I asked him to sign the chair underneath on which he was 
sitting. He liked that very much. 


WESCHLER: That chair is in the entryway right now; 
it's a plain chair, and if you go and look underneath 
it, it's signed "Rostropovitch, " with the date, the 
twenty-sixth of March, 1956. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that's true. I would have given 
him a not-so-plain chair, but he needed this one for 
playing a cello. He didn't want one which is too 
comfortable . 

WESCHLER: You can't play a cello from a couch. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , and not from an overstuffed 
chair. [laughter] The next time — I think my husband 
had already died when he called me--he invited me 
again to his concert. Also he asked me where my 
husband was buried: he wanted to go to his grave. 
And then I went another time aga _ii when he called me, 
and this time it was at Schoenb g Hall that he 
played. I waited for him behi. the stage to greet 
him, and when he came out and tdw me, he immediately 
recognized me. It was very dark there, so he was 
amazed. But he couldn't speak English or German, 
he just kissed me. Every time he wanted to say some- 
thing, he began in Russian, and then he recognized 
that I wouldn't understand it, so then he kissed 
me. That was the most direct language one can 


imagine . 

WESCHLER: What kind of person is he? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, he's a wonderful person. Very simple 

and rather modest, you could say, not like someone with 

big egoism or something. And he can also be very gay. It's 

wonderful to be with him, not only wonderful to listen to 


WESCHLER: Speaking of cellists, another cellist who you 

knew fairly well was Nikolai Graudan. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I knew him and admired him, not only for 

his playing but also because he had an enormous knowledge 

of everything. I always liked to be there in the evening 

when he and Hansi invited me and other friends. And then he 

wanted to go to Russia. He was already rather sick, and 

also Hansi [Joanna], his wife, knew it, but he wanted to 

see his relatives again and to see Russia again. The doctor 

said it would be dangerous, but nothing could keep him here. 

So he went to Russia and had a very good time, but he 

died there. And then Hansi came back alone. She is a 

wonderful person, not only a wonderful artist, but what she 

did with young people.... 

WESCHLER: She's a pianist. 

FEUCHTWANGER: She's a pianist, a very good pianist, and 

has always great reviews when she has a concert. But also she 

has the most famous students. Mona Golabek is her student. 


I remember when they played together four-hand, the first 
time, when Mona was only fourteen years old: you could 
already then see what a teacher Hansi was; she was fan- 
tastic. And now Mona's famous. She plays at the Music 
Center and in New York, at the most important concerts. 
Hansi really inspired her, and she knows it. And then Hansi 
makes these beautiful concerts with little children of all 
races, little Negro children, Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, 
American-Mexican. They begin already at, I think, five 
years old, and always higher. She gives the concert in 
a private house on Fremont Place. It is a patron of music, 
this man [Clarence Gustlin] who owns it, and he has a 
concert hall in his house. It's always a great day when 
she and the two Schoenfeld girls invite us. 
WESCHLER: Were they frequent entertainers at their house 
during the fifties and so forth? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, they came to see the library — everybody 
came to see the library--but I must say that I am more 
invited than they came to me. They all invite me al- 
ways to their house. 

WESCHLER: Another person is Piatigorsky. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, Piatigorsky. I met him at all the great 
concerts. He's always very funny and amusing. He makes 
the best jokes in his broken English. I love to hear him 
speak English. His wife [Jacqueline de Rothschild] is one 


of the most beautiful women I ever saw. She doesn't 
speak much, but she is a great chess player, a famous 
chess player. And she's also the patron of the chess 
tournament. Once there was a world tournament here, and I 
was there on the last evening for dinner; and the winner 
of the tournament [Dr. Wilfang Unziker] came with me at 
eleven o'clock in the night to see the library. He was a 
German. And when I came to Munich, he immediately came 
to my hotel and invited me there to his house, far out of 
Munich, to see it: he wanted to reciprocate. 
WESCHLER: Another musician with whom you're friendly is 
Henri Temianka. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, Henri Temianka, I think, is very im- 
portant here for the music life. He did a lot for the 
interest; he evoked so much interest for music in this 
city. Now they recognize it, but he had a hard time un- 
til he was recognized. He is now always asked by the 
radio and television to speak there, and his concerts are 
always sold out. He makes those nice speeches before the 
concerts always: he explains in a very witty way, in a 
very short way, what will be played and also about the 
life of the artist, of the composer. Mostly he knows 
anecdotes which nobody ever heard; and I don't know where 
he gets them all. But I think this kind of way began with 
[Leonard] Bernstein, who did it in New York. [Temianka] 


did it in another way because he is another kind of person. 

But he is very — he has something kind and modest and witty. 

And people love to hear it. First the critics always said, 

"We don't want to hear all of that" — but they know it, of 

course, and we don't know it, and we want to hear it in 

the way he does it. He really gives the atmosphere of 

the performance. 

WESCHLER: You mentioned to me a story about an evening of 

chamber music at his house. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, yes. He liked always to invite his 

friends. And he is very popular with other musicians. 

For instance, the Russian [David] Oistrakh liked him very 

much; both were violinists, so you couldn't say, "Ach, that's 

because he is a pianist." They are both violinists, and he 

came to see him and played also in his house. They 

played together once, I don't remember, I think it was 

Brahms with two violins in a concert hall. And another time-- 

we were always invited when he had friends in his house for 

a little evening with music, and once there was playing 

Isaac Stern and [Rudolf] Serkin; I think Oistrakh was 

not there on this day. 

WESCHLER: Aw, that's too bad. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. [laughter] But they were playing, and 

Albert Goldberg, who is the critic of the Los Angeles Times , 

he turned the pages, [laughter] So it was really a 


fantastic evening. 

WESCHLER: Another friend of yours is Jakob Gimpel. 
FEUCHTWANGER : Yes, I admire him greatly. He is one of 
the greatest pianists who live now, I'm sure. It took 
a long time until people have recognized it, but now he's 
known over the whole world. Every year he plays almost more 
in Europe than here; he is very much admired there. 
People are just storming him when he's playing and giving 
standing ovations, things like that. A long time [ago], 
he was not so good in playing, I think, because he felt 
unsecure; I remember he had once a write-up where Albert 
Goldberg wrote that he was not on the high of his faculties. 
But this must have brought some change in him, because the 
next time he played — that was at Schoenberg Hall — he was 
fantastic. He was powerful, and at the same time he has 
this famous Gimpel touch. He doesn't hammer the piano. 
And Goldberg wrote this time an enthusiastic review. And 
this was the turning point, I think, of his career. 
WESCHLER: What is Gimpel like? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, he is very amusing. He is very good in 
telling anecdotes--I wouldn't say jokes: it's more anec- 
dotes. He is full of anecdotes. And he is very kind and 
very — really, I cannot say otherwise--amusing. He is a 
very good friend, with his wife, Mimi . 
WESCHLER: Isn't Henry Miller a student of Gimpel 's? 


FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, Henry Miller is a great admirer of 
him. He is one of the oldest admirers. But he has also — 
his students just adore him. He must be a fantastic 
teacher. He has his master classes, and Henry never 
fails to go there. Once I met Henry Miller there. I 
knew Henry Miller a long time; I met him already in '41 
here and was at his house in Laurel Canyon, and we had 
a good time together. In those days he was always sur- 
rounded by beautiful women with long open hair — that was 
not the fashion yet, but he began with it. And then I 
met him also at a dinner at Jakob Gimpel's house. One 
day he was sitting across a table and he told me, "You 
know, I want to know more about you. You intrigue me. 
You have to tell me more about you." And I didn't — 
why should I tell him over the table about me? So I 
didn't answer, and then he was angry and made a very ob- 
scene remark. But I didn't change my mind or my face, you 
know; I just ignored it. He thought I would be angry, but 
I didn't make him the honor to be angry about it, I'm too 
old for that. [laughter] Afterwards it was again all 
right. He had just tried me; he wanted to... 
WESCHLER: ...feel you out. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, something like that. [pause in tape] 
WESCHLER: We've determined that you don't remember that 
obscene remark; you're not just not telling it for decorum's 



FEUCHTWANGER: I don't remember anymore. But I know that 
he always had, until now, always beautiful girls around 
him. Once he had two Korean girls who were there and 
were always dancing before him in beautiful costumes. 
And one he brought also to Gimpel, to the dinner. Some- 
times I brought him home because he couldn't drive any- 
more. He was always bicycling around in Pacific Pali- 
sades, but he didn't drive anymore. So I brought him 
home. And then another day, he brought me home, because 
he had a beautiful Greek young man also around who was in 
his house taking care of him, along with those two Japanese 
girls or something--it always changed every time he had 
another girl, but all were beautiful, and this time he had 
also a beautiful young man. He was then the driver, and 
he brought me here to my house. In the car we had such a 
good time: everything was laughing, and it was absolutely 
like Fasching. 

WESCHLER: Fasching in Pacific Palisades. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, in the car. [laughter] The young 
girls giggled, so everything was great. 

WESCHLER: Okay, going on with some of the other people 
who you knew during the — now we're getting closer to the 
fifties and sixties and so forth. Just very quickly, you 
made an interesting comment about Lawrence Durrell, about 


how small he is. 

FEUCHTWANGER: The first time when I saw Durrell, I was 
amazed how he looked. He gave a lecture at UCLA. He is 
as small as a dwarf almost. But he looks very strong, 
very robust. His lecture was very nice, I was very in- 
terested, and then afterwards he came and introduced him- 
self to me. Then he told me he wants to send me a book, 
which kind of book I wanted, and I said, "Any. I'm glad 
for any one you send me." But he never did. That's all 
I know about him. 

WESCHLER: So that was the end of a flowering romance. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Another writer we've talked a bit about off 
tape is Guy Endore. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Guy Endore was an interesting person. He 
wrote very good books. But he was also in a difficult 
situation because he was known as one of the fellow travel- 
ers. Which he wasn't in a way, but he was sympathetic. He 
wrote a book about Dumas [ King of Paris ] , about the French 
writer; and this has been bought by the movies, but it 
couldn't be made because he was blackballed. But at least 
he got money enough to buy a very nice house in Brentwood. 
He had always very good parties with very nice interesting 
people. Abbot Kaplan was there, who is now the president 
of the New York University. For a long time, he was dean 


of fine arts at UCLA. He had too always interesting 
people gathered around himself. Endore's wife [Henrietta] 
is very charming and clever. 
WESCHLER: What was she like? 

FEUCHTWANGER: She is a fantastic person. She has a kinder- 
garten. This kindergarten is the most popular kindergarten 
I ever heard about, also in Brentwood. People were 
very interested in what she did and what she did with those 

WESCHLER: What was Guy Endore like? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He was a strange person. He often came to 
see me--his wife had to work and he wanted to speak to 
somebody, so he came to see me. But he said, for instance, 
"Today I haven't eaten." He hadn't eaten for two or 
three days, sometimes he said. It was a kind of hobby 
for him not to eat. I don't know. I told him that's 
not good. Although he did a lot of exercise. He looked* 
very young: he wasn't so young anymore, but he looked very 
young and slim and was in good shape. He also had a 
gymnastic bar on the door where he made exercise and 
calisthenics and so. But he said it's good for people not 

to eat sometimes, and also he can work better when he has 
his empty head or stomach. I disagreed: I thought he 
shouldn't do that because he looked pale. Then he died 
suddenly. I don't know if it was the reason that he was 


too weak. 

Anyway, when he was dead, I could see what a great 
influence he had on people. He was one of the founders of 
Synanon. He not only founded it, but he also influenced 
people there enormously. Once he asked me to come to a 
Seder, a Passover; he said there are lots of Jews there, 
and they want to make Passover at the Synanon. It was 
formerly a big club directly on the ocean, very far out on 
the ocean, in the middle of sand. But before I was in- 
vited for the Seder at the now-president of the Hebrew 
Union College, who was then the director of the school 
here [Dr. Alfred Gottschalk] . Always it was a tradition 
that I came every year for the Seder to his house. And 
once I said, "Are you again having Seder Fires?" He asked 
me what that is, and I said, "In Germany, after the war of 
1871, when they conquered the city of Sedan in France, 
they always, for years and years and years, even when I 
was already grown up, every year they still were feting 
this victory. So, are you feting always the victory over the 
Egyptians? Isn't it a little late for doing that?" And 
then he laughed. I said, "I don't agree that we do that 
always and be glad that we were victorious." But he said, . 
"I have to tell you a story. When the children of Israel 
passed through the Red Sea, and the Egyptians followed them 
and were all swallowed by the waves, the children of Israel 


were jubilant that they were victorious and on land. And 

the Angel Gabriel, who was in heaven, he looked down and 

was also so glad over the victory. But then God told him 

and said, 'Don't you know that those Egyptians are also my 

children?'" And this made me thinking that I like now 

the Seder better. 

WESCHLER: So you went to the Seder at.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: Then I said I could not stay for the second 

part because Guy Endore wants me to be there at the Seder 

of Synanon. Everybody, I think, knows what Synanon is. 

WESCHLER: You might mention what it is. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it is for people who had taken drugs and 

wanted to get rid of their habit. And it has an enormous 

success. People who were almost done, spiritually and 

bodily, became again interested in life. They have, for 

instance, filling stations, all kinds of things they are 

doing, even a kind of industry now. 

And this was also a very funny story, because there 
were not so many Jews there. But for their Jewish members, 
they wanted to make a Passover Seder. So they were all 
standing in rows, and on the stage was a big long table with 
a white cloth where were sitting several rabbis in their 
white robes, with their yarmulkes on their head; and they 
were speaking about this story of the exodus. There is a 
lot of singing in this thing, and all the people were 


singing with them--but not only singing and clapping their 
hands, they were also dancing at the same time. They were 
standing in rows; nobody was sitting. They were standing 
in long rows and dancing. They didn't even know each 
other, but they danced with one another, but mostly dancing 
from one side to the other, having a grand time of joy and 
pleasure, singing and shouting. It was an enormous — my 
ears were deaf almost from the noise. I was sitting on 
the side with the Endores. And there was a big Negro sitting 
beside me; he had also a yarmulke, and he said, "You see what 
I have on my head. Do you know what that is?" And I said, 
"Of course, that's a yarmulke. And I ask you: are you now 
a better person when you have it on your head?" And he was 
so amused that he went from one table to the other and told 
them what I said about the yarmulke. 

But the most impressive thing was that after Endore 
died, there was a big service in this club, which is an 
enormous hall. And it was full to the last place, and 
everybody was there--lots of people from the movies, 
actors and musicians and writers. On the stage came 
people who praised Endore, and there were Negroes there. 
It was most impressing how they spoke about him, his 
influence on them, and what they all owed to him, what they 
were before and what they are now. It was one of the great- 
est experiences I ever had, to see those people speak about 


him. I never can forget this day. 

WESCHLER: Well, all these stories have served to give us 

a sense of your growing publicness, just to the extent 

that in the sixties you were increasingly participating 

in Los Angeles. I mean, going to Synanon was certainly 

a new facet in your life. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Also the United Nations Association; I 

am a member, and there are always interesting evenings 

there . 

WESCHLER: And you were going to concerts, of course. 

FEUCHTWANGER: And then ACLU [American Civil Liberties 

Union]. Always at the library in Santa Monica, there are 

evenings there. And sometimes very interesting people. 

One of them who just arrived said, "I just come out from 

jail and I have still from the chain on my feet...." 

WESCHLER: The scar from the chain. Who was this? 

FEUCHTWANGER: It was this man who has been investigated.... 

WESCHLER: Ellsberg? 

FEUCHTWANGER: [Daniel] Ellsberg, ja. 

WESCHLER: Oh, really? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. Ellsberg and most of all his friend, 

WESCHLER: Anthony Russo? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja, he had just come out from jail. 

And everybody was pleased to have him out. The funny 

thing is that the other day, I spoke with the new candidate 


for senator, you know, Tom Hayden, and he said he was one 

of the eight or ten in Chicago. . . . 

WESCHLER: The Chicago Seven- •• . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, the Chicago Seven, and he was accused 

but he was acquitted. And the funny thing is that he said 

those people who wanted to bring [him] to jail, they 

are now in jail, [laughter] And that's the same as 

Ellsberg, of course. 

WESCHLER: So anyway, this has been a very valuable session 

in giving us a sense of how you became more and more a 

part of the community. 

FEUCHTWANGER: And then there is [Alan] Sieroty, who is a 

senator, you know. He's always working, and he was working 

for Ellsberg. Once at the high school in Beverly Hills, 

which is an enormous hall also, they got a lot of money 

for Ellsberg 's defense, and he spoke also himself. I 

remember that when the parents of Sieroty got up and gave 

$200, that was a good example, and then everybody wanted 

to give something, wanted to give more. 

WESCHLER: We talked a little bit last time about the 

political work that you've done. One other thing I wanted 

to do, though--another major thing that you were doing 

during that period was showing the library. I guess that's 

the thing that you do most. 

FEUCHTWANGER: That's my hobby and my profession and whatever 


you want, [laughter] my life. 

WESCHLER: There's a list I'm looking at — for people who 
want to research this, Coranto , which is the Friends of 
the use Library publication, in the [Spring! 1964 edition, 
has an article which includes a list of many of the people 
who visited the library. We don't have to go through list- 
ing them, but it's a terribly impressive list, and you 
also have your little guest book, in which people are al- 
ways signing in. There is one particular story which I 
like very much, which you might tell us, which is about 
the German ambassador when he visited. 

FEUCHTWANGER: [Karl Heinrich] Knappstein, ja. Before 
Hitler, he was editor of the financial department of the 
Frankfurter Zeitung . It was very important for the whole 
Europe in those days. But he was immediately deposed by 
Hitler because he was too liberal; but he was not Jewish, 
so he was not persecuted. But he had all the books of 
Feuchtwanger in his library, whole rows, he said, of 
Feuchtwanger. And he had to hide them. So the only way 
was to hide them under the coals in the cellar. And every 
time they wanted to read a Feuchtwanger in secrecy, they 
were very black from taking them out from under the coals. 
And then he also told me that he knew very well Lion 
Feuchtwanger 's novel Success , which is about the first 
Hitler putsch, where Hitler is called Kutzner, and not with 


his real name. And every time he and his friends had to 
shout, "Heil Hitler," they always shouted, "Heil Kutzner." 
And this was rather courageous. I was trembling afterwards 
if somebody had heard it. 

WESCHLER: Okay, roughly, how often do you give the tour 
of the library? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, it depends. Sometimes, it's every 
day in the week, and sometimes there is another week which 
is not so often. I have now a waiting list which is about 
150 people, who all want to come, very important people 
here. But I have to always interrupt this list because 
people come from abroad and come sometimes only for one 
or two days just to see the library. The other day I got 
a call: there is somebody here from Hamburg who doesn't 
want anything to do or see here except the library. And 
the same day he had to fly back. So sometimes it comes 
so suddenly. And this week I had people here from Switz- 
erland, from Germany, and from France. And without further 
notice before. So sometimes it's a little much. 
WESCHLER: And how do you arrange it? You have a list of 
150 people who want to come. Do you do a group tour or...? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, sometimes I make group tours. Also 
sometimes there are clubs who want to come, a Jewish club, 
or a female club, or artistic clubs or music patrons. 
And they give as a prize — it's usually when people give a 


lot of money for this club, for charity or so, then as a 
highest prize, they are allowed to come and see the library. 
But I always tell them I cannot have the whole club here; 
the most I can have is twelve persons or fifteen persons 
because if you show a book they cannot see much when there 
are too many people around. Sometimes before I did it with 
my secretary — she had one group and I had the other — but they 
always wanted to go with me in the group, so it never 
[worked]. I said I'd rather do it twice, in two groups, 
than having too many at once. And the funny thing is that 
really they get lots sometimes, a lot of money for giving 
that as a prize. 

WESCHLER: Well, if you'd charge admission, you would make 
a lot of money, too. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja . [laughter] I did make money. Did 
I tell you about what I made with my face? 
WESCHLER: About when you were a model.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , when I was a model. You know about it? 
WESCHLER: Yes. Well, I think we've got a good sense of 
some of the kinds of things that you were doing in the 
sixties, since Lion's death, and that you continue to do 
now. Next time, I'd like to concentrate on two trips that 
you took to Europe in the late sixties, to both Germany 
and Russia. That will begin to bring us up very close to 
the present. 


OCTOBER 3, 1975 

WESCHLER: Today, Marta , we're going to talk about your 
trips by yourself to Germany and later on to Russia, in 
1969 and 1971. But as a preface to that, we might tell 
one rather moving story about an exhibit which you had 
something to do with concerning the drawings of the children 
at Theresienstadt. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, that was, one of my friends in Venice, 
you know, one of my Bohemian friends there [Andy Conn] ; 
he was working for the city street engineers, but they all 
were living in Venice. They always had lots of people 
who were interested in fine arts, although it's very 
primitive in their houses. When you come there, you would 
think it almost falls over you, the house. And — I have 
to tell a story. Once they had a lot of people there, and 
the little children ran around between the legs, it was 
so full, so many people. And I said to the young mother 
[Myrna] , "You know, your child always picks up the crumbs 
of the cookies which are fallen on the floor." And she 
said, "Oh, I don't believe in germs." And this little 
girl [Janin] has in the meantime grown up to be a stunning 
beauty, with blond hair and blue eyes, and you never would 
know that she once ate the crumbs. [laughter] 


WESCHLER: Maybe we all shouldn't believe in germs. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. [laughter] And another time she called 
me and said I should come, that they have a young man, a 
young teacher. Bob Melvin, who hiked through East Germany. 
He had a lot to tell me, and they wanted me to come. And 
he has also some slides to show which he made himself. So 
I came, and then he showed the slides. I was terribly 
moved; it was a terrible experience to see those paintings 
and drawings of the children in Theresienstadt (it's also 
called Terezin) who were there in concentration camp. 
Their parents later came to Auschwitz and were gassed, and 
the children mostly died of hunger. And if they didn't, 
they were also gassed. So they showed me those drawings. 
A young teacher had taught the children there, and this 
teacher of course has been also killed later. But she 
wanted to entertain the children so they had not such a 
terrible--so drab a life. And it was not allowed, of course: 
She had to find all those colors and watercolors and so by 
begging with the guards. And they drawed on brown packing 
paper. The most terrible one was just a brown square, a 
dark brown square on a light brown paper. And this was the 
impression I had of the children. There was a four-year- 
old child who painted that. That was the atmosphere the 
children lived through. 

Then I tried to show [these slides to] people here. 


who were usually very much for charity and all those things. 
Here in my house, this young man came with his slides, 
showed it to them, and also the poems, because the chil- 
dren made all poems to those pictures. But they were not 
interested here. They said nobody wants to be reminded of 
those terrible times. 

WESCHLER: What year was this, about? 

FEUCHTWANGER: In the beginning of the sixties. And then 
I told Ralph Kaplan about it, who is a friend of mine; 
he is a reporter and journalist and writer, and he has 
lots of connections. He wrote about it to New York and 
many other cities where he had friends, but I didn't know — 
I never heard anything more about it. 

This young man [Bob Melvin] told me how he found those 
pictures: when he was hiking he came to Stettin and heard 
children singing in the school. He entered the school 
and asked the teacher if he could attend the class (he 
understood some German) . This teacher [let] him attend, 
and then he said, "Since you are here, why don't you go to 
the exhibition of those children of Theresienstadt which 
is in Stettin?" And then when he saw that, he got the 
permission to make the slides, which was very unusual. 
Then he told me that this whole exhibition came from 
Prague--Theresienstadt is also in Czechoslovakia — and he 
gave me the name of the man who assembled this exhibition. 


And I wrote to him because I thought it should be known 
in America, too. 

WESCHLER: What was the name of the man in Czechoslovakia? 
FEUCHTWANGER: [Vilem] Benda. And he wrote back that it 
has been even made a book about those paintings and poems, 
and it has been printed, one in German and one in English, 
and he sent me both. And those poems are also very impres- 
sive. The children--some are sixteen years old, some are 
ten years old; the oldest, I think, was sixteen.... 
V7ESCHLER: What's the name of the book? 

FEUCHTWANGER: The name of the book is There Are No Butter - 
flies Here . (It should be translated verbally: No Butter - 
flies Are Flying Here . ) 
WESCHLER: The German name is.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: Hier f liegen keine Schmetterlinge . * And then 
I tried also that this book should be published here; but 
there was no interest here. But when I went to Prague, this 
man who assembled those things and had it printed, who 
was the director of the Jewish Museum in Prague, he also 
showed me all the interesting things there, the Altneuschul, 
the old temple, and also the cemetery. 

♦Actually, "Butterflies Don't Live Here: Children's 
Drawings and Poems from the Terezin Concentration Camp" 
was the title of the exhibition. The book was Children' s 
Drawings and Poems , Terezin 1942-1944 , published by the 
Statni Zidovske Museum, Prague, 1959. [M.F.] 


WESCHLER: We'll talk about that in more detail when we 
get to Prague. But did he say something to you about the 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he said that it was very amazing: 
my efforts were very successful, and there were a lot of 
exhibitions in America of these paintings. And I didn't 
even know about it. I had to go to Prague to hear that. 
WESCHLER: Did they show in Los Angeles at all? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, they had no interest here. I showed 
it here at my house. This young teacher came here to show 
the slides, and I had quite a group of influential people, 
but they didn't — they said nobody wants to be reminded 
of those times. This was the only city where I couldn't 
make an exhibition. Maybe I could do it right now, if 
I tried again, because things have changed now. 
WESCHLER: Well, that story in a way serves as a preface to 
your trip back to Germany. Now, from what I understand, 
you had had contacts with Willy Brandt long before. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, my husband had contact already a long 
time before. During the Nazi times they had corresponded, 
and they were in several organizations together. Only 
by mail — they didn't know each other. And then [after 
the war] I remembered that where we lived in Berlin — 
Grunewald — the street was called Gustav Mahler Street, 
and the Nazis changed that into Max Reger Street. Max 


Reger is from Munich and a very good composer also — I 
wouldn't have anything against him — but I thought that 
after the war, they should replace it or at least name 
another street after Gustav Mahler. So I wrote to Willy 
Brandt and told him, "I know it's difficult to change a 
street, that there's a lot of bureaucratic red tape about 
it; but you have had to build so many new streets, maybe you 
could name another street after Gustav Mahler. Now is 
very soon is the birthday of Mrs. Alma Mahler Werfel; maybe 
for her birthday, you should do that." And he wrote back 
very enthusiastically: he thanked me for my suggestion, 
and he will give my letter immediately to the Department 
of Streets and Buildings. But I got a letter from there 
answering me that it's not necessary to do that because 
they don't want to have two same titles of streets; since 
they have already a Gustav Mahler Street in East Germany, 
it isn't necessary to have one in West Germany. And then 
I wrote them back, "If you think that your answer would 
satisfy me, then you don't know me. If it's difficult 
to name a new street, then you could at least name a place 
for it." I never got any answers, but when I was in 
Berlin, the mayor had me shown all those monuments which 
have been made for the victims of the Nazis, very impres- 
sive monuments. Also for the hanging of the generals from 
1944 who 


WESCHLER: The conspiracy of the generals to kill Hitler. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , ja. It's a very impressive, beautiful 
place. It's kind of a church [at the spot] where those 
all have been hanged. So I came from one of these places 
and also past some ruins which were still standing, and I 
came through the middle of Berlin. And then I saw some- 
thing. Of course, I had lived in Berlin so nothing was 
new to me, but there I saw a big sign on a place, "Gustav 
Mahler Place." Nobody told me about it. But at least 
I had the satisfaction that it had worked. 
WESCHLER: Now, why did you decide to go back to Germany? 
FEUCHTWANGER: I didn't want to go back. In his first 
letter which Willy Brandt sent me, he invited me officially 
and said, "We would be all very happy to have you here as 
our guest." But I just made excuses; I didn't even men- 
tion that I don't want to go. And the second time he has 
invited me, a friend of his was here to see a friend of 
mine, by chance. And both came to me and told me that 
Willy Brandt invites me again through this friend to come. 
But again I didn't — I just didn't want to go; I was afraid 
to go. I was afraid to meet anybody who would be a Nazi 
before or so. It was like a nightmare for me just thinking 
of Germany. But the third time, I got a letter from the 
academy, from the director of the academy. Dr. Walther Huder, 
that they are opening now the Feuchtwanger Archives and 


wanted this opening together with a concert in honor of 
my husband, also with a lecture of his work and a banquet, 
and I have to inaugurate the archives and this whole 
festival. So then I couldn't say no anymore, and that's 
why I came. And when I was there, this terrible oppres- 
sion which I felt was gone. I felt quite at home again 
in Germany. 

WESCHLER: How do you account for that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I think most of the people I met, I 
knew were either refugees or were in the underground or 
were socialists who were anyway the opposition of Hitler. 
I tried to avoid the older VIPs and met with many young 
people who were, of course, innocent of the whole Nazi 

WESCHLER: What was it like just walking in the streets 
for you, encountering older people in the streets? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I didn't walk very much. I was always 
driven. [laughter] Also it's too long, too far away, 
everything, so there would have been no time. What I 
did do was that in the morning — I lived in the academy 
the first time, and in the morning I did jogging (which 
I used to do here) . Behind the academy there is a public 
park. And it was raining very much, and I made a jogging 
in the rain, barefoot in the park, [laughter] And it was 
very beautiful there. That's the only thing I did where 


I walked. Usually I was driven. 

WESCHLER: What kinds of official functions were you 

driven to? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I was invited at the theater, at the 

opera, at the ballet, and then the mayor gave a reception 

for me. 

WESCHLER: Was this still Willy Brandt? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, Willy Brandt was already chancellor. 

The mayor is Mr. [Klaus] Schiitz, who was also in the 

opposition, the underground; he lost one arm in the war, 

during the war. He's still there; he is still mayor. 

WESCHLER: What was he like? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He's very nice and gentle. And I was with 

Probst Griiber there. That is also a special person. Mr. 

[Heinrich] Griiber was a kind of Protestant bishop in 

Berlin. And when his friends, his Jewish friends, have 

been sent to concentration camps, he said, "I don't want 

to be out of it. I go with my friends into the concentration 

camp." So he was there and was terribly maltreated there, 

mistreated and tortured — they beat out all his teeth, and he 

had pneumonia and heart trouble — until they let him free again. 

But he lived in great poverty during the whole time. And 

then he came here to Los Angeles and was celebrated by 

the Hebrew Union College and made an honorary doctor here. 

And there I met him the first time. Then he gave an 


enormous festival for me — I couldn't say it was a 
reception — in a castle of the kaiser [Schloss Gerhuis] . 
And there were all the diplomats of all the countries, 
all the consuls and ambassadors, and also the [head of 
the] American occupation army. And there were so good 
things to eat — there was those white little sausages — 
but I had to leave before the sausages came, because I 
had to go to another reception. I was very sorry. 
WESCHLER: What was the exhibit at the academy like? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, it was fantastic. I have never seen 
something like that. There were those blown-up photos — 
already everywhere where you went in Berlin, on all 
the corners, there were those photos of Feuchtwanger 
blown-up as a kind of advertisement for the exhibition. 
And it was the whole house; the whole academy was full 
of the exhibition. The only thing was that I could 
never see the whole thing because when, at seven o'clock 
in the morning, I usually went down (because I lived 
there) to begin with looking at it, people already came 
to pick me up for something, some special things or ex- 
cursions or so. And I never could see the whole thing. 

There was a big press reception, and there were 
speeches, of course. And then some spoke about how the 
academy is not endowed enough from the government, but 
the director said, "I think that will be changed now 


since Mrs. Feuchtwanger is here." And one of the big 

newspapers also made a speech that it is a shame that a 

cultural city like Berlin wouldn't do more for the 

academy. And this all was later the next day in the 

newspapers. So it helped a lot, for the finances 

of the academy. 

WESCHLER: Did that exhibit ever tour at all? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it toured in many cities. 

WESCHLER: In Germany? 


WESCHLER: Did you meet Willy Brandt on this trip? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I didn't go to Bonn, so I couldn't 

meet him. 

WESCHLER: And then what about East Germany? 

FEUCHTWANGER: In East Germany, it was very easy to go there, 

In fact, the second time I came, they already recognized 

me from two years before at Checkpoint Charlie; it was 

just some minutes and I could go through right away with 

the car — no, I had to go out of my car and enter in the 

other car, that's all. 

WESCHLER: Were you in East Berlin in official capacity 

also? Were you wined and dined officially? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh yes, more than I could master. I lived 

in the Kronprinzen Palais. That is the most beautiful 

palace in Berlin, also the style is most beautiful, and this 


is used for special guests. And the first day I came, 
there was my picture in the newspaper, and right beside 
me a picture of one of the representatives, of Iran, I 
think. And in the other newspaper, I was on the first 
page, and the representative of Iran was on the second 
page, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: That's the way we like to see it. What kinds 
of official functions were there for you in East Berlin? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I have to think about it. There was a 
big banquet first of all — that was given by the publisher. 
I have been asked what I like to eat. It was fantastic 
eating, but when I have been asked — because it was in a 
big wine restaurant, you could also have other things-- 
I said I would like to have some salad, and there was 
great consternation. Nobody ever thought about salad 
eating. They are not so much there for salad. Anyway, it 
was a little awkward, and I said, "Oh, it's not necessary." 
But finally there came cucumber salad. It was as big 
as a bathtub. I ate so much cucumber salad, I couldn't 
eat for days anymore, [laughter] But it was very good; 
it was very good eating. And then from there I went to 
Mrs. [Maud] von Ossietzky and to Mrs. Zweig to see them. 
WESCHLER: Can you talk about that a little bit? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. Mrs. Ossietzky is a fantastic person. 
There is also a book she wrote about.... [Erzahlt: Ein 


Lebensbild ] 

WESCHLER: This is the wife of the man who won the 
Nobel Peace Prize. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , he was in concentration camp right 
from the beginning. He didn't want to leave Germany. 
He could have left in time because he was not Jewish: 
He was a nobleman, and also before he was in England for a 
while, and then in Berlin he was the publisher of the 
Weltbiihne , which was a leftist magazine and very liberal. 
But he said he does not go away because he wants to see 
what happened, that this is his duty to stay there. But 
they immediately put him in a concentration camp. And 
we were there. . .we were not there... no, when he came in 
the concentration it was something else. He had a trial 
as a traitor because he attacked the government--this was 
before Hitler, at the end of the government before him. 
He attacked the government that they, against the Versailles 
Peace Treaty, began to arm again. So there was a trial, 
and he was condemned as a traitor. We all went to accom- 
pany him to the jail, in cars, and I remember that in my 
car I had Bertolt Brecht and Arnold Zweig. And that was 
the last we could see him. I remember how he crossed the 
very big empty place, very dusty, and how the doors closed 
behind him. Later he was sent to the concentration camp. 
And then he became the Nobel prize during his stay at the 


concentration camp. He was very badly treated; he was 
not a strong inan--he was a writer — and he had to make 
earthwork, you know, all kinds of difficult and very heavy 
work, and he became very ill with pneumonia and malnu- 
trition and was very weak. And then they were afraid 
he would die after he got the Nobel prize, they were 
afraid of the publicity, so they let him out then, to 
die outside. And he died very soon afterwards. 
WESCHLER: How was his wife living in East Germany? 
FEUCHTWANGER: His wife was living very well. She had a 
companion who took care of her. She was a very beautiful 
old lady (she died in the meantime) ; she was half East 
Indian. Her father was a high kind of general in the 
English army in India when India still had an English 
viceroy there, a kind of colony. Her father was an 
English general, and he married a very highborn East Indian 
woman, and she was the daughter. And she looked very 
much Indian. She had a kind of yellowish complexion, with 
very big brown eyes--you see that so often — and her com- 
plexion was very light, because mostly the aristocrats are 
a very light color. And she looked beautiful like, I 
should say, a sculpture of Kathe Kollwitz. Very beautiful. 
(Maybe I find her book where she has a picture of her.) And 
she was enormously pleased that I came to see her; she 
cried for pleasure and didn't leave me go. I had to go 


somewhere else, but I stayed a long time there. And then 
she wrote me; almost every month she wrote me a long 
letter. I returned the letters, but she always says she's 
so afraid that she doesn't hear enough of me — America is 
so dangerous with the cars, and she's always afraid some- 
thing would happen to me, and I should write more often. 
And then, in the later years, she wrote me often that she 
is always cold. She is not sick, but she is always cold. 
The house is heated and everything, but the winters are 
cold in Berlin and she always feels cold. And then she 
sent me a letter of her husband which he sent her from 
the concentration camp, and also a picture of him from 
this time, from the concentration camp, which is a very 
rare thing, that she could do that, separate herself from 
those documents. 

WESCHLER: And that letter is part of the archive? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, of course, ja, ja. 
WESCHLER: What about Mrs. Zweig? 

FEUCHTWANGER: And Mrs. Zweig was--she had lost her hus- 
band not long before, and she was, of course, very sad 
about it. She told a lot about the last days of her hus- 
band, and also that she made trips — she came just from 
Munich and from Vienna where she met her sister (she was 
in Italy) — and that she's doing a lot of painting and draw- 
ing because she was an artist, and this helps her go through 


these times. And she gave me also a drawing which she 
made of Arnold Zweig. And she too had a companion who 
liked her very much and was very devoted to her. She 
felt rather — she was satisfied with her life, but she 
was critical of the government. She spoke--and I always 
was looking if the girl, this lady, if somebody could tell 
(you know, we hear so much about the secret kind [of 
society, how] nobody can say what they want) but she had 

no fear to speak out. And also the other people had no 

WESCHLER: Do you think that was common in East Germany, 
that it was a lot looser than people think? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. For instance, maybe I told you 
about [Walter] Janka , who was the first publisher of 
my husband in the Aufbau Verlag. There was a man 
[Wolfgang Harich] who was a very great fanatic; he made 
always complaints and wanted to make an organization 
against the government, that it was not liberal enough. 
And finally, in 1954, you know, there was a kind of revolt, 
and some of the writers have been tried. And Janka was 
one who was a victim of this fanatic man because he implied 
all the others by letters and so. So [Janka] had to go for 
five years into jail. That was the publisher of the Aufbau 
Verlag. And I wrote to [Walter] Ulbricht, who was then 
chancellor.... When my husband died, he wrote me a letter 


and asked me if he could do something for me; he would 
like to be helpful. And I said, "I know that sometimes 
people are honored by an amnesty, and couldn't you speak 
out an amnesty for those people who you have jailed, 
mostly Mr. Janka, who was my husband's publisher?" And 
then he wrote back and said he cannot do that because he 
cannot interfere in a trial. But it was amazing that he 
wrote back and excused himself. Anyway, it didn't help 
very much: he was not free. But after five years, when he 
was free, he was installed like nothing had happened. 
He couldn't go back as a publisher because in the meantime 
there was another very good publisher who was a friend of 
mine, also (who also gave a party for me) . [Klaus] Gysi 
is his name; he is now ambassador in Italy. But Janka 
was allowed to go to the movies and became a movie pro- 
ducer. He was one of those who instigated to Konrad Wolf 
to make the movie Goya . But he has all the freedom. When 
he came to me to the palace where I lived and wanted to 
visit me the first day, I said, "Won't you make a little 
walk? I would like to go around the block with you." He 
was a little startled, that instead of sitting there 
and drinking some wine or so, I wanted to make a walk. 
So when we were a little away from the palace, I said, 
"You know, I was afraid somebody could--there could be some 
bugs. I always hear that everywhere are bugs and everything. 


and maybe you couldn't speak freely with me." He 
said, "Oh, that's ridiculous. Let's go back in 
the palace. I speak. I don't care; I speak what I 
want to speak." 

WESCHLER: Had he been badly treated in prison? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, no, no. It was just — prison is never 
a spa, but it was like other prisons. The most important 
thing was that afterwards it was just ignored that he was 
in prison. It was no amnesty or it was no special treat- 
ment. All the people who came out were now reinstated 
wherever they could be functional. 
WESCHLER: Is he allowed to travel? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He is allowed to travel, even much to travel. 
He went to Switzerland to see Mrs. Mann and was there for 
the tenth anniversary of Thomas Mann's death. He was several 
times in Switzerland to see Mrs. Mann. And also in Italy. 
He made also the contract with Mrs. Mann about Lotte in 
Weimar ; that is one of the minor works of Thomas Mann, 
and they made now a movie out of it. [pause in tape] 
WESCHLER: Were there many Jews in East Berlin? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, nowhere are many Jews. The whole Germany 
is Jew-free. There are very few Jews. I met some in Frank- 
furt, where I was invited to an exhibition of Emigration 
literature in the public library. But they even didn't 
speak very well German. Some were from Romania, and only 


one was really born in Germany. He was blind, and it 

turned out that he was a relative of mine, we found out — 

a faraway relative. 

WESCHLER: But I have heard somewhere that there are more 

Jews in East Germany than in West Germany. 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know. I wouldn't know that. It 

could be. 

WESCHLER: Okay. Well, that was pretty much the first trip, 

wasn't it? Did you just come back? Or did you go any 

other places besides East Berlin? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, when I was in West Berlin, I went then 

to Munich. I didn't want to be received officially in 

Munich because I am not for the Bavarian government very 

much. That is still a little bit like in Erfolg, you 

know, in Success . So I told them not to say anybody, 

that I come incognito, which sounds so... 

WESCHLER: ...mysterious? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, not mysterious, but conceited, you know, 

to speak about "incognito." But I really didn't want that 

anybody would know. I wanted to see Munich again, and I 

wanted to come to my friend who has an estate on a lake on 


WESCHLER: Who was this? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Near Murnau; it's called the Staffelsee. 

WESCHLER: And who is this friend? 


FEUCHTWANGER: The friend is Maria Angelica Kunzt. And 
her friend, with whom she lives together, who is also my 
friend now, is an aristocratic doctor; she comes from an 
aristocratic family and is a doctor there. Her name is 
Dr. Alice von Gulath and she was also representative of her 
party in the assembly in the Bavarian government. 
WESCHLER: What were your impressions of Munich? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, my impressions of Munich was that it is 
a beautiful city as it always was, but in those days it 
was very much uncomfortable because they built a new sub- 
way there. So everything was broken up and dug up. And 
when I took a taxi, he couldn't find his way around, and I 
had to tell him where to go, how to go — many of these so- 
called Munich people are not born there, you know. So 
I had to tell him how to go around; when we couldn't go 
straight, I told him how to go around to this place. 
WESCHLER: You remembered it completely? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, of course. 

WESCHLER: Has it changed, besides the subway? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, it has not changed. Fortunately. There 
is only one thing: there was a big, beautiful street — 
avenue, you could call it — with trees and many official 
buildings, government buildings. And on the end of it, 
high up, is the Maximilianeum, which is now the parliament. 
And there the Isar, the river, goes through, and it is 


one of the most beautiful streets I know. But they cut it 
in two in the middle because for the whole traffic which 
is now there they had to have a kind of ring which goes 
around. So they had to take some of the buildings out. 
That was the only changing what I saw. 

WESCHLER: How was it in terms of the people of Munich? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, the people are the same. They are very 
gay, I found, and shouting and driving very vigorously, 
very ruthlessly, you could say. 

There was one funny thing: when I went to my friend, 
I had to go by train because the roads are too full. And 
the train goes very fast; it's a train which is only for 
the surroundings. So I called for a taxi where I lived — 
I lived in a pension because I didn't want to live in 
a hotel so it wouldn't be so obvious. 

Oh, I have to tell you first: when I arrived, I 
thought nobody would know, and only my friend would be 
there, with her friend Mrs. von Gulath. But there were 
a lot of people there, because my friend told it to Kadidja 
Wedekind, the daughter of Frank Wedekind, the writer, and 
she was there, too. She writes for the newspapers, so it 
seems to me that she told some newspaper people. Anyway, 
there were some there, and I had to go into a special 
room where the VIP people are received, and I had to give 
them an interview. They asked me, "What are you saying 


when you come here and there is nobody here from the 
government?" I said, "Oh, I didn't notice it. For me, 
everybody's all right." And the next day there were 
headlines in the most important newspaper, "MARTA FEUCHTWANGER 
MENT DOING?" So I immediately got a call from the minister 
of culture, "But we didn't know that you were here. We 
would have made an official reception. We are very unhappy. 
Why didn't you tell us so?" And I said, "I didn't want all 
this fuss. I want to come back where I was born." And 
then he said, "I'm coming right away and I pick you up." 
So he came with his chauffeur, and he brought me to the new 
library, which was the old library where my husband wrote 
most of his novels-- The Ugly Duchess and Jud Siiss (he 
wrote most of it there and made all his research there) . 
And he said, "You have to see it." It was all bombed out, 
of course — there was nothing — but they rebuilt it, very 
beautifully, everything. Only there were some statues of 
Greek philosophers on the stairs before the building, and 
they looked a little too new. Then he led me there through 
the library and showed me everything, and there was an 
exhibition of my husband's books there. And then he picked 
me up again, and I had to go with him to the first hotel, 
the Vier Jahreszeiten, for a banquet. And so, everything. 
He tried his best. And then I was invited to a school 


for an opening of a college or so, and when I came there-- 
ach, it was so funny — I had to sit in front, of course. 
And on one side was the lord mayor. Dr. [Jochen] Vogel, 
and on the other side was Golo Mann. He was just there in 
Munich because the school has been called after Thomas 
Mann, I think, so he came and had to make a speech. But 
I had to go to another banquet right away, and I couldn't 
hear his speech. He's a very good speaker, and I was very 
sorry about it. I have all pictures of all those things; 
they sent me a whole — really heaps of pictures. I was 
sitting there, and then a little girl came with a little 
bouquet and had to speak some verses which the professor 
had made as a poem for me. And I was so sorry for the little 
child. I remember when I had to do those things, [laughter] 
WESCHLER: So how long was this trip altogether? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I don't remember. More than a month. 
WESCHLER: Did you go back to your old houses in Munich, 
where you were living? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No. In Munich? No, it was not standing 
anymore, you know; it was all built new. The street was 
still there, but it was a very short street and everything 
was new. I have to tell you something else: every year 
they make a big book for Munich, [as for] any big city. 
And once they sent me a book for Christmas or New Year, 
a book of Munich. And there, on the jacket, was a very 


dark picture with lights on it. And I recognized the 
street. On one side was the bank — that's why I recognized 
it--and on the other side were two windows lighted, and 
those were the windows where behind them I have been born. 
The street had been rebuilt, and also the building looked 
exactly like the building where I was born because they 
were good buildings in those days. I have seen it also 
when I came by. But it was a funny thing that on this en- 
velope — it was not intentionally; it was just by chance 
that those two windows were lighted, and those were the 
windows I was born. 

WESCHLER: Had you seen the place that you were living in 
Berlin when you were there? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I didn't want to go anymore. I was 
very near in this palace where this banquet was for me, but 
I didn't want to go there. 

WESCHLER: So although you were trying to change the name 
of the street, you did not go and look at it? 

WESCHLER: Okay. Well, I guess that pretty much covers that 
first trip that you took. What was the occasion of the 
second trip? It was a few years later. 
FEUCHTWANGER: The occasion of the second trip was the 
opening of the Feuchtwanger Room in the academy in Mainz. 
Mainz is the important city in Germany where Gutenberg was 


born. I didn't know that the reason they invited me was 
that my husband was the first to send money for the 
Gutenberg Museum because it has been destroyed by the 
bombing. He never told me about it. But they didn't 
forget it. And Mr. Jockels Fuchs is the lord mayor of 
Mainz — it is a very important city for industry and also for 
wine; a lot of wine is going on there--and he's one of the 
best friends of Willy Brandt (there are two friends of Willy 
Brandt, and the other is lord mayor from Berlin, Mr. Schiitz; 
they are also very important in the party, in the labor 
party) . So he invited me for the opening of the Feuchtwanger 
Room. And then Dr. [Walther] Huder, the director of the Berlin 
Academy, who came with the whole exhibition the first time I 
was there, wrote me a letter already before I left here that 
he is so sorry that he couldn't be there, that he has to take 
his vacation just during this time and will be in Italy." 
When I arrived, there was a big banquet in a hotel where the 
confluence of the Main and the Rhine is to be seen from the 
top--a very beautiful landscape. And when I entered this 
room, there was Dr. Huder and his wife. He came from Italy 
just for this occasion. He interrupted his vacation and came 
from Italy. Then he spoke also his speech which he spoke in 
the opening at Berlin, and then there was also a concert there. 

And just when I was about to come in very solemnly 
in my evening dress, to the sound of Mozart, I got a call 


from East Berlin. They heard that I am in Mainz, and they 
want to invite me for the first showing of the movie Goya , 
and it would be very important that I would see it. And 
I said, "I cannot speak now. I have to go." I didn't say 
"to the sound of Mozart" — "I have to go in. They are all 
expecting me. They cannot begin without me." [laughter] 
And then they called me again at night, in the middle of 
the night, and repeated it. And I thought, "Why shouldn't 
I go?" They had invited me also to Russia, and I said I 
couldn't go to Russia because if the movie is not good I 
wouldn't want to be there and have everybody ask me and I 
have to say, "I don't like it." So I took the occasion to 
see it first in the German version in Berlin. And that's 
why I went then to Berlin. I had not even the intention to go 
to Berlin. I only wanted to go to Mainz. 

WESCHLER: So, then you did go to Berlin. And what did you 
think of the movie? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, the movie is fantastic. It's beauti- 
ful, very beautiful. And also, I was so afraid they would 
make it — because they are not so near to the modern movies, 
you know, in this country — I thought maybe they make it 
old-fashioned, big, you know, with dark colors and all those 
blue and red costiimes, like the Italian painters, [Antonio] 
Correggio or so, and I was very much afraid of that. But it 
was light and in the colors of Goya, and the actor who played 


Goya is just outstanding. I wouldn't know a better actor 
for this part. He's from Lithuania; his name is [Donatus] 
Banionis. He's a very timid and modest person, but he's a 
fantastic actor. 

WESCHLER: Was this an East German film or a Russian? 
FEUCHTWANGER: An East German film made in collaboration 
with Lenfilm; that is the best Russian film company. 
WESCHLER: And two versions were made of it, a Russian and 
a German one? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, a Russian and a German one. 

WESCHLER: And it was made by Konrad Wolf, the son of Friedrich 

FEUCHTWANGER: Konrad Wolf was the director, yes. And Janka 
was the producer. And a very good script has been made. 
Dr. Guggenheim, who is my representative, went to Berlin 
to make the contract for me, a very good contract. And in 
this contract I had a clause that I have the right to see 
the script. This is usually not done; that is something 
unheard of. But since they knew me already, so they thought, 
"I think we can risk it." They worked half a year on the 
script, and I didn't like it. They sent it to me, and I 
didn't like it. It was too sentimental. I didn't just tell 
them I don't like it, I proved what I didn't like, you know; 
I had to explain. And out of that came a great correspon- 
dence, and they printed the whole correspondence. There 


came a book out of the correspondence between me and Janka 
and the others who wrote the script. [The seventh volume 
of Arbeitshef te , published by the Deutsche Akademie der 
Kiinste zu Berlin, entitled Goya : Vom Roman zum Film , includes 
an article by Walter Janka, "Kein Experiment 'Goya' und 
kein Weltlauf" (pp. 15-23), which cites Mrs. Feuchtwanger ' s 
correspondence extensively.] And then they sat down another 
six months and made a new script. And in the new script, they 
heeded all my advice and suggestions. 


OCTOBER 3, 1975 

WESCHLER: We are continuing with the movie Goya , which you 

saw in East Berlin in 1971. You were telling me that they 

had heeded your advice on the film. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, they accepted all my suggestions. And 

when I saw it, I found it too long. And they even went 

through this whole trouble to shorten it. Also I told 

them what part of it I would like to have shortened or 

changed, taken out or changed, and they did everything. 

When I saw the movie here.... I hadn't seen it since then, 

but they sent me a copy as a gift. 

WESCHLER: A copy of the film? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I have it here. 

WESCHLER: You actually have the reels? 

FEUCHTWANGER: The whole film. There are two big, so big 

cases. And I showed it already at the American Film Institute. 

And people were enthusiastic about it. Professor Von Hofe 

has seen it, and Mr. Melnitz, and they were just raving about 

it. What was most important was — I haven't seen it after it 

has been changed, you know, because they had also to change 

the Russian version--! never have seen it with the changing, 

and this really improved the movie enormously. 

WESCHLER: Was it a successful film? 


FEUCHTWANGER: Very! In Russia and East Germany. But 
it has not been shown yet in West Berlin. But it has been 
shown in Japan, where it was a sensational success. And 
now, Mr. Konrad Wolf was in Alaska; he was invited to 
show it there, first at the universities, and he also made 
lectures there. He came then to see me here, the first 
time he was here, and he told me that it was an amazing 
success. In whole Alaska, he went everywhere, north and 
south, very cold and warmer. And then it has been spoken 
around; I don't know how. The German ambassador in Washing- 
ton called me and said if I would allow that they show it 
there. But only a kind of private showing, it has not 
been shown commercially yet. And then Williamsburg heard 
about it, and they wrote me if they can have it. So it 
was already here somewhere around in universities. 
WESCHLER: Is there any chance that it will be released 
commercially in the United States? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Probably it has to be synchronized. It is 
not synchronized; it only is with subtitles. It could be 
shown with subtitles in small kinos , you know, in so-called 
art kinos . But the Russians and the Germans have bigger 
ambitions with it, to make it commercially, and those art 
kinos are no business, you know. So now I probably will show 
it in the fall, in the late fall — but this should not be 
spoken about — for the graduation school of USC. They want 


to make a special organization for scholarships. And this 
will be together with the government here, with the mayor, 
with Mr. Walter Coomb, who is the art advisor of the mayor. 
And they want to make a big thing for this proposition, 
that is, for scholarships. They say that until now young 
students come to the university and ask for scholarships, and 
they not always are the best students. What they want to 
do now is to go to the colleges and find out who is talented, 
and give the scholarship to Blacks and Chicanes and also 
Chinese or Japanese, to get the best, who sometimes are too 
modest or have not the means to do that. And for this I 
offered the film for the opening of this. So they probably 
will get some.... 

WESCHLER: Okay, one more story before we leave East Germany 
and go to Russia. You were met at the palace where you 
lived by a representative of Ulbricht, who, it turned out, 
was ill. 

FEUCHTWANGER: They came to me, to the palace, to give me 
this decoration, the decoration of the Golden Star for Friend- 
ship Between People. And this has been done in the big hall 
of the palace, and the one who put that big star on me is 
now ambassador of [East] Germany in Washington [Dr. Rolf 
Sieber] . He called me the other day from Washington and 
said, "Do you remember me?" And after he told me his name, 
I said, "Yes, you were the one who give me the Star of 


Friendship." But the other who was with him — it was a whole 

committee, and there was a big banquet afterwards in the 

palace — he said, "Do you remember? I was for a short time 

in Sanary and visited you and your husband. I was a writer 

there and went afterwards to Mexico." And I said, "Yes, 

I remember you as a writer, but I didn't know that you 

were somebody big afterwards." Because he is now the second 

after Ulbricht, deputy prime minister [Alexander Abetz] . 

WESCHLER: Well, after you were in East Germany, did you 

then go to Prague or to Russia? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I was invited from the academy in Prague. 

And the director of the academy in East Berlin [Dr. Karl 

Hossinger] offered to accompany me. They said they cannot 

let me go alone; I have to have an escort. He was an older 

man; he was the director of the German Academy and he came 

with me. He spoke Czech also. 

WESCHLER: You were ad-libbing all this, or had you planned 

this before you left? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I didn't plan anything, I only planned 

to go to Mainz for the opening of the Feuchtwanger Room 

and then come back. 

WESCHLER: So tell us a little bit about Prague. 

FEUCHTWANGER: So Prague was a stunning thing, fantastic, 

really. And the academy invited me there. Of course, I 

was brought to the best hotel, a whole suite there, with 


everything what was good and always a car to my disposal. 
And then they gave a big banquet on one of the highest 
hills, where there is a part of the government building 
in an old palace. And from there I could have the best 
view of Prague. Nobody can see it. It is not usually for 
travelers; it is more private. And then, of course, I told 
you about this other things, what Benda showed me, the ceme- 

WESCHLER: Well, you haven't told that on tape. You were 
going to tell it now. You went to the Jewish Museum in 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I have been brought there, of course. 
WESCHLER: This is where the Theresienstadt exhibit had 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja, that's true. I have been brought, 
and Mr. Benda had announced that I will come and was there 
waiting for me at the cemetery. I was amazed how small it 
was. But it's very eerie. It was a dark day, and those 
graves and the stones are all built one on top of the other 
because there wasn't enough room. And he showed me also 
the stone of the mystery rabbi Loeb ("lion"), who was a 
Cabbalist. Usually the Jews have no sculptures or images, 
but there was a lion on the stone, and it was — this atmos- 
phere was fantastic. 
WESCHLER: It's an extremely crowded cemetery, isn't it? 


FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, very. That's why there are stones some- 
times one above the other. And also little hills are every- 
where, even though it is a very small cemetery. But they 
haven't changed anything; that's good. And fortunately it 
was also not ruined by the war. And then very near by is 
the Altneuschul temple which is called the "Old New Temple." 
It is the oldest temple, I think, which is still existing 
in Europe, except in Toledo, where there is also a very old 
Jewish temple. And I found this old temple much better than 
the new one, very much simpler, and dark, more like the 
Gothic cathedrals in atmosphere. And then across the street 
from there is an enormous museum; it is the Jewish Museum — 
and you know who instigated this Jewish Museum? The Nazis. 
From everywhere where they had invaded, they brought all 
the beautiful temple insignias, the scrolls, and the silver 
and gold menorahs--they brought them all together in an 
attempt to show how cultured they are that they killed the 
people but preserved their works of art. 

WESCHLER: Prague in 1971 was just coming out of the immediate 
period after the Russian invasion. What was the general 
mood of the people? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, of course they were all — most of them 
were very depressed because they were very happy under this 
[Alexander] Dubcek government. And they didn't know what the 
reason was. The reason had nothing to do with Dubcek in a 


way; the reason had to do with East Germany. Mr. Ulbricht 
was very strict, much stricter than all the other Commu- 
nistic governments--the East German government. And there 
was a time when so many of the learned workmen escaped 
from East Germany — that's why they built also the wall, 
because they couldn't have any industry if they had not 
their skilled workmen. But when they couldn't go over the 
wall anymore — they couldn't go over the border — they went 
all to Czechoslovakia, to go from there to West Germany. 
It's very near from there to West Germany. And that couldn't 
be continued anymore, that they went into Czechoslovakia. 
They found the government of Czechoslovakia was not strict 
enough and let the people all go through. 

WESCHLER: Did you have any occasion to talk with Czecho- 
slovakians about the repercussions? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. I had a guide; she was a lady, a middle- 
aged lady, and she told me.... I didn't speak much. I 
didn't want to embarrass them, you know. I didn't know if 
somebody could hear it, or somebody could find myself 
too intruding in their inner politics. So I waited until 
people were speaking. And she told me that they all liked 
the government of Dubcek, but that it is not as bad as what 
she heard the newspapers are printing in other countries. 
They are waiting for better times, but there is 
nothing which they can complain about. 


The life goes on like before. It was just that some higher- 
ups have changed — the officials have changed — but nobody 
of the medium citizens could find anything changed. 
WESCHLER: Do you think that's true? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know. That's what she told me. 
And at the end of my trip, when I left, I wanted to give her 
something, but she didn't accept anything. So I bought for 
me a pocketbook, because everything of leather is very 
cheap in Czechoslovakia (gloves and all leather goods are 
very cheap). So I bought a beautiful handbag for me, but 
then I gave it to her. And she accepted that. And then 
she told me that she was Jewish, too. And she brought me to 
a wall in a church where all the Jewish people were en- 
graved in stone who had died through the Nazis. And she showed 
me also the names of her parents. 

WESCHLER: You told me a story about Benda in particular 
and what happened with him. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, Benda 's son was very much for the older 
government, and he was depressed — he didn't know what will 
happen. Nothing happened to him — he was not prosecuted 
or so--but he was terribly depressed and committed suicide. 
And on his grave a year later his wife also committed sui- 

WESCHLER: What was the effect of that on Benda? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, he was very bitter, of course. He 


spoke loudly about everything; he didn't constrain him- 
self. And he died also — some years ago he died. He was 
very bitter. He said everybody is an anti-Semite. So I 
didn't know what. Because he had reason to be bitter, of 

And then they showed me also the street where Kafka 
was born and where he lived. And this street is absolutely 
colorful. It's very funny: so much color was there. I 
was doubtful that that was also during the time of Kafka. 
No, he wasn't born there--he lived there. Little houses. 
Were you there too? 

FEUCHTWANGER: And there was a little shop with all the 
many colors in it. Did you also notice that? And then I 
saw also the house where his parents have lived. 
WESCHLER: A question about Kafka, just now that we brought 
it up. Were Kafka's works very popular in Germany in the 
twenties at all? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Not very popular. Only some few literary 
people didn't know it, but it was not so popular that you 
could say he was known by readers on the whole. 
WESCHLER: Was Lion familiar with Kafka? 
FEUCHTWANGER: He didn't know everything of him. 
WESCHLER: It was only later? When would you say it was 
that Kafka began to be more well known? 


FEUCHTWANGER: Mostly after the Second World War. 

WESCHLER: Well, going from Czechoslovakia, you went to 

Russia then? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. But first I have to tell you — it's 

not very interesting — I saw the oldest church there [in 

Prague] also, which was very interesting for me, because 

it was much more simple than the other churches. And what 

was amazing was the beautiful shops there. They were like 

French boutiques. There's a whole street where there are 

these beautiful shops and fashion shops, and also some of 

the most beautiful exhibitions of modern glassware, which 

is probably mostly for the foreigners. But the girls 

were--and it was very warm, the summer, and they had not 

much on; they were all with shorts — but I was amazed how 

badly they were clothed in contrast to East Germany. East 

Berlin is very elegant. 

WESCHLER: My little gloss on that is that when I was in 

Prague, in 1967, the women were incredibly well dressed. 


WESCHLER: Just before the invasion. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, ja. But it maybe was also because it 

was summer, very warm. Perhaps they weren't very well 

dressed, just very lightly dressed. 

WESCHLER: I see. Anyway, so you went from Prague to 



FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, to Moscow. And there I was picked up. 
It was already in Mainz like that: when I arrived in 
Frankfurt (because Mainz and Frankfurt have the same 
airport) , there was already the lord mayor there to 
receive me. And I was so spoiled. I wouldn't have known 
what to do. I didn't have to show my passport; I didn't 
have to change the money--everything was done for me. I just 
had to walk from the plane to a car. And I got the money 
changed. And the same was in Russia, absolutely the same. 
WESCHLER: Before we start talking about Russia — had Lion's 
books continued to be published in Russia all through the 

FEUCHTWANGER: No. During the late years of Stalin, he 
was not printed anymore. Then after Stalin's death, they 
began again to print him. And even the Russian ambassador 
to Washington called me one day and told me that they are 
now beginning again to print Feuchtwanger ' s books again. 
WESCHLER: That was in the fifties, the late fifties? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, that was after the death of my husband, 
about '60. The funny thing was, when I was in the train 
to Prague, from Berlin to Prague, with this director of 
the academy [Dr. Hossinger] , there came, of course, the 
customs people into the train to look at my passport. And 
the young man said, "You have a very famous name." Then the 
director said, "Yes, this is Mrs. Feuchtwanger, who is the 


widow of Lion Feuchtwanger . " And after that, the whole train 

passed before the windows of my compartment to look at 


WESCHLER: So Lion's reputation was also very great in 

East Germany? 

FEUCHTWANGER: And then in Prague. It was amazing. 

All the restaurants are so full, as it was in East 
Germany, the very elegant wine restaurants in East Germany, 
some in old castles. They eat and eat for hours there. 
And very good eating, good wine. And also they eat very 
well in Prague. And there is a famous fish restaurant. 
They asked me what I liked to eat, and I said, "Here you 
have a river; probably you have good fish. I would like 
to have some fish. " And so they wanted to bring me to 
a fish restaurant. But it was so full that outside there was 
a sign "Closed" (in Czech) . But my escort, who was born in 
Prague, he could read it. And then he went in and said, 
"You know"--I was waiting outside — "You know, we have to 
come in; you have to find some place. This is Mrs. 
Feuchtwanger, the widow of Lion Feuchtwanger." And then 
the headwaiter came out and said, "Of course, you come in." 
They brought a little table which they put in the middle of 
the room, and with two chairs. And he brought immediately — 
not only did I get a fantastic fish from the Vltava [Moldau] 
River, he brought a book of my husband which has just been 


reprinted, Jud Siiss , and wanted me to inscribe it. He 
said, "I'm just reading the new edition of Jud Siiss . " 

WESCHLER: Okay, so getting back to Russia. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. And in Russia I lived in the Moscow 
hotel [the Rossiya] . That was the newest and the best 
hotel. In the meantime they have now a high-rise hotel, 
but that didn't exist yet. And this hotel is looking 
down, across to the Kremlin. It's very high, and the hotel 
is so big, it's almost like — the whole block is one hotel. 
And they have different parts in the hotel which are [sep- 
arately] directed, you know. There are special porters 
and special people who work. Every one is like a new 
hotel when you go from one story to the other. And an 
enormous amount of elevators. And when I came up with the 
elevator, there was a desk where those officials from the 
hotel were, and there was always somebody running out from 
behind the desk with my key--I didn't even have to go to 
the desk for my key--running before me to my room and 
opening for me the room and standing there as if it would 
have been the czar or something. 

WESCHLER: Now, what was your official capacity in the 
Soviet Union? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I never had an official capacity. 
WESCHLER: I mean, what was the official reason for your trip? 


FEUCHTWANGER: I was invited for the movie. 

WESCHLER: I see. By the film institute? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know — the government probably. No, 

no, I forgot. It was the international film festival. 

They were showing the film Goya there at the international film 

festival, and that's why I was invited. Since the movie 

Goya was nominated for a prize, it has been shown in the 

Kremlin. Only the nominated films have been shown in the 

Kremlin. From all the countries of the world who make 

films, there were representatives there with their movies. 

And even sometimes just parts of countries: for instance, 

even Bavaria had films there (it had nothing to do with the 

Berlin movie company) . And from here was Stanley Kramer 

there with his movie. Bless the Beasts and Children . 

And a very good Italian movie also which has been shown 


The day before they have shown the movie, I wanted to 
go to Leningrad. The wife of the director of the film union 
in Berlin, she spoke Russian, and she went with me. They 
never let me go alone, so I would have always company. And 
we had also a Russian interpreter with us. And then we were 
invited in Leningrad officially — always by women's groups, 
you know, the women's unions or so. It was also in the 
first hotel. There was a beautiful banquet there, very 
good eating, and fish, [laughter] Everybody said Mrs. 


Feuchtwanger wants fish. They expected me. 
WESCHLER: The word had gone out. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , ja. Then we wanted to go to the museum, of 
course, the famous museiim, the Hermitage. But when we arrived 
there it was closed because it was Monday. In Europe, every 
museum is closed on Monday, and they did it also in Russia. 
Nobody knew it; it must have been new. And a lot of people 
were there, Americans and French people, who were very upset — 
they came to Leningrad and couldn't go in. And I was also 
very sad. I didn't want to stay overnight because the next 
day was the performance of Goya ; since there is sometimes 
lots of fog there, I was afraid I could not take the plane, 
and with the train it would have taken too long. So I said, 
"We cannot do anything, I cannot stay overnight." And then 
this lady told our interpreter, "Why don't you go around. 
Maybe you can come in. Maybe there is an office." And I 
said, "But we can't do that. That's impossible." But he 
said, "Why not try?" And so he went around; he was a rather 
fresh young man, a student of film, and he went there and 
said, "There is Mrs. Feuchtwanger who wants to see the icons"-- 
mostly I was interested in icons. And then he came out and 
said, "The wife of Lion Feuchtwanger can come in." And then, 
because there were so many people outside who were angry, 
we couldn't go through the main entrance--we had to go also 
around, through many kinds of narrow corridors, and it was 


very eerie, until we came to the office. And from there, 
there was a young girl who showed us for two hours all the 
things which people usually can't see because it's too 
crowded. So I could see everything. 
WESCHLER: What was your impression of that? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, it was fantastic. But I knew, of course, 
most of the impressionists and Goyas and all, or similar. In 
Paris I have seen all those beautiful paintings. But I was 
more interested in Russian things. So I saw the icon exhibi- 
tion, which is something fantastic. And also there is a 
special exhibition of samovars. From the very beginning, 
from the very first samovars, every [type] was collected 
there; it was also very interesting. 

WESCHLER: You were telling me before that the Russian 
television and so forth covered your visit rather extensive- 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. Also in Berlin already, there was 
always a crew — no, it was not the Russian, it was the Berliner 
crew, who came from Berlin and always went with me wherever 
I was. When I was in Potsdam, in Sans Souci--you know, this 
old castle of Frederick the Great--everywhere where I was, 
they came behind me and walking behind. They hid behind me. . 
And when I had to go to a special castle where they made the 
Versailles Treaty — I had to go there (I was not interested at 
all, at all, but).... [laughter] And then I was at the 


Pergaraon Altar, which is really something. It is on an 
island in the middle of Berlin, an old palace. This is 
famous, the Pergamon Altar, but I was disappointed. I 
thought it's a big thing which is very imposing, like the 
temples I have seen of Greece and Southern Italy, Magna 
Graeca. It was one of the later Greek works of art, and it 
was so much renewed, renovated, that it didn't make so — 
mostly the size was not impressing. So I made my comments to 
the people who went with me, and I didn't know that everything 
has been taken for the broadcast. So everything, my comments, 
have all been broadcasted. And in the evening, also on my 
walks, wherever I was has been shown on television. 

And this same crew went also with us to Russia and 
made everywhere where I was also photos. And then there was 
an excursion on the Moskva River with two big boats. And 
they came also on the boat. And then I wanted to eat always 
fruit, and the crew found out where to get fruit, and I got an 
enormous amount of apricots, which I would have never gotten 
probably without them. They gave me always wine, or even 
caviar or so, but I liked fruit. Then there came word around 
that I was there, and on the other ship was [Gregor] 
Kosintsev, who was the greatest living movieman in those 
times. He was a disciple of Eisenstein. And then he asked 
both ships to stop, and he changed to my ship. He was a 
very elegant-looking man. He looked more like a Frenchman, 


slim and well dressed and very quiet. He was so pleased 
with me, and he told me that he is president of the film 
department or whatever you call that, the organization, and 
that Goya will probably get a prize. He told me that in all 
secret. Then he told me also that what I knew — I had seen 
films of him here, one in a private showing at the stuaio 
here of the movie company; I think it was [Metro] -Goldwyn- 
[Mayer] which showed the film Don Quixote . It made an enor- 
mous impression on me. And then Chaplin had shown us the film 
Ivan the Terrible , which was made by him. 
WESCHLER: That was by Eisenstein. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, but he was working with Eisenstein on 
it. So I have seen already his work. And then he told me 
that he is now making — he made Hamlet , the famous Hamlet , 
and he's now making King Lear, with the same actor who 
played the Goya . And then he told me, "And you know what 
I'm doing? I take the translation of Pasternak." And he 
said it very loudly so that everybody would hear. And 
Pasternak was not very popular, you know, but he was a very 
good Shakespeare translator. And then Kozintsev died 
about two years ago. He invited me to Leningrad; whenever 
I come I should live in his house in Leningrad. 
WESCHLER: What was the showing of Goya like in the Kremlin? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ach, that was very funny, because you have 
to go there — you know, it's very medieval still there. There 


is a bridge which was once a drawbridge, and there is a 
big trench between. This bridge is high, you know; it 
goes high up and down on the other side. I also have been 
filmed, of course, in the Kremlin: with the youngest 
actress of Russia, they made a photo of me before the oldest 
church of Russia, and also walking through the big palace 
with her together through a long corridor. And they made 
the whole walk of me. [laughter] And in the evening — I 
walked always in from [the hotel] — you usually went either 
by a taxi or by bus because there are lots of buses there. 
And always is a bus there; you never have to wait. But 
they told me I cannot go over the cobblestone plaza with 
evening dress and evening shoes. So they sent me a car to 
bring me in over the drawbridge; and then the chauffeur 
told my companion, who was with me, that it is the first 
time since Stalin that somebody has been brought by car 
into the Kremlin, [laughter] 

And then, since it was a nominated movie, it has 
been shown in this big Palace of Congresses, which is a 
fantastic, beautiful building. It doesn't even--although 
it's modern, it doesn't stick out from the old buildings. 
It's so beautiful. And this is for 6,000 people. It was 
very full to the last place; and when you were inside, you 
heard enormous shouting outside because they were fighting to 
come in. And it was very expensive to come in. And I was 


sitting with the ambassador in a stall, I think they call 
it, a box on top, where before the czar was sitting or 
someone like that — no, the czar didn't know this building 
anyway; I mean, the officials. And when the curtain opened, 
there was a man, very elegant, who said he is from the 
television and he's introducing now for the television 
public what is happening on this evening that they are 
showing the film Goya . And I heard always, "Feuchtwangera. . . 
so I thought it must be I; it was the only thing I under- 
stood. And then finally he showed where I was sitting, and 
everybody turned around and got up on its feet, 6,000 
people applauding--it was quite a noise, you can tell. 
And there is a ramp which goes down to the stage, and I 
had to go down on the stage; they asked me to do that. I 
had an elegant dress on, you know, with a cape, so I had 
to go down slowly, slowly, and then I was alone on the 
stage. And the people didn't stop applauding. A standing 
ovation. And then I applauded myself — I thought maybe that 
that would then be helping a lot that they stopped. And 
then I got a big bouquet of roses, beautiful roses. And 
finally came all the actors who played in the film out to 
meet me. And then I had to go again back up the whole ramp 
and again people got up and applauded. And I wanted to see 
the film, you know. [laughter] 

And afterwards in this hotel was an enormous reception. 


It went through the whole building — there is a big room 
which went through the whole building, and it was all full, 
very good eating, lots of caviar. And Janka was sitting in 
a corner and didn't want to have to do with anything. 
WESCHLER: How so? Why? 

FEUCHTWANGER: He's like that, you know; he's an Asket and 
looks, though very good looking, very ascetic. And he's 
against those luxuries, you know, what these Communists 
make. [laughter] 

And there was [Sergey] Gerasimov, another famous 
director, who is now the successor of Kozintsev. He was 
here the other day. Did I tell you? There was here an 
invitation for the Russian-American relations, cultural 
relations, and I was invited there. I was there rather 
early to get a good place because I wanted to hear every- 
thing; there were speeches. Everybody spoke only Russian, 
but there was an interpreter who immediately could speak 
in English. And I was sitting there in the first row because 
I wanted to see everything. But all of a sudden somebody 
came and said the first row is for the guests. So I went 
up and wanted to go to the second row, but there came a 
gentleman who said, "Oh, Mrs. Feuchtwanger , you have to 
stay here." And that was Gerasimov. He recognized me from 
the Goya film. And he was a special guest here. So I had 
to sit beside him. And since he doesn't speak English, he 


wanted to say--some French we spoke together--he always 
kissed my hand. Every time we didn't quite understand 
each other, you know, he kissed my hand, [laughter] 
[pause in tape] 

WESCHLER: While we're on the subject of Russia, you have.... 
FEUCHTWANGER: I have a lot of correspondence with people 
from Russia. There is one man who is in the agricultural 
department [Ibrahim Aitov] , and he [gets] around very much 
by his profession, and he always looks for translation of 
Feuchtwanger ' s books, because there are so many different 
languages in Russia. 

WESCHLER: Have you ever met this man? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I never met him. Oh, he was so sorry 
that he didn't know when I was in Russia. It was by chance; 
I couldn't get him on the phone or so. He wrote me after- 
wards a letter that he was so terribly sorry he couldn't 
meet me. But he began the correspondence. The first time 
he sent a picture of himself with Feuchtwanger books which 
he found in translations of languages I never heard about, 
Kazakhstanish or Turmenish or whatever there is. 
WESCHLER: This was while Lion was still alive? 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, it was after his death. He didn't hear 
before about me. So he said that one language he couldn't 
find. He knows that it has been translated, but he couldn't 
find the book; and I should write to the Leningrad Library, 


and they will send it to me. And it really happened. I 
wrote them, and they sent me this book in this strange 
language. He signs his name Aitov, but then underneath, 
he writes always his name again in Arabic letters. In 
those parts, it seems, there is still Arabic writing. 
Maybe it has something to do with Turkey or Iran. The 
first picture I got from him was he standing and having a 
book in his hand with Lion's photo on the cover. Then he 
sent me wine from the Crimea, and little things — artifacts or 
so--and also photos of his family and him (with him sitting 
in a kind of succoth, you know, where he lives; it's very 
warm, and he has grapes hanging in the garden, hanging 
above them where he is sitting with his family) . And still 
now, he's always writing and very happy. 
WESCHLER: I even saw a magazine article he wrote. 
FEUCHTWANGER: No, that is another one. 
WESCHLER: Oh, that's a different man? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that's a different man. 
WESCHLER: Who is that man? 

FEUCHTWANGER: This man is a professor of languages in 
Groznyy; that must be also in the south, near Georgia or 
so, because his name sounds Georgian, or the names which 
he writes; there is another photo with Georgian names. 
And he is doing lectures about Feuchtwanger . He was also 
in Germany, collecting memorabilia. He found an article 


which my husband wrote in '28, and he sent it to me. Also 
he himself writes articles about him, and he always sends 
me — I don't know how he comes, all of a sudden. And this 
picture is fantastic; he looks like Mephisto. 
WESCHLER: Mephistopheles . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , Mephistopheles. He must be a very 
good looking man, and he speaks all the languages: French, 
Russian, German, and English. 

WESCHLER: What is the situation with royalties? Are you 
getting royalties from Russia? 

FEUCHTWANGER: That was also a funny story. Always when 
we were in France, the beginning of the Feuchtwanger print- 
ing in Russia, they always sent us a sum from time to time, 
a big sum, but never any account for what it was, or why 
or so. And we were very glad because we had to support so 
many emigrants--also the family of my husband, the secre- 
tary--and it was very important because we lost everything 
in Germany; my husband had to begin from scratch again. 
Then, when we came here, they also continued to send money 
here. But then came the McCarthy times, the Un-American 
Committee and the McCarthy times. So my husband was afraid 
that they would call it conspiracy, you know, when you have 
to do something with Communists or Russia, so he wrote them 
a letter, "For God's sake, don't send any money anymore." 
And they stopped. But then they didn't resume the paying — 


after McCarthy, they didn't resume it anymore. But when 
I was there, they told me that I have a lot of money there. 
It's still there. It's acciamulated in an enormous sum, 
and it's very good because the ruble is better than the 
dollar, and I should do something. But they came the last 
day — I didn't know about it, and the last day came a man 
when I had already my ticket and was going to go back. He 
was one of the representatives of the Writers Guild in Russia, 
and he said, "You know, you have all that money; you can get 
it if you do the right steps, but you have to stay here 
longer." But I had to go back. I was afraid something 
happened; I couldn't get any news from here. I didn't 
know what happened here. I thought with those terrible 
fires around, I thought that maybe in the meantime my 
house had burned down, or whatever. I just couldn't stay 
anymore; I couldn't stand it anymore to stay — and no letter 
came from Hilde. It was just terrible. She said she wrote 
to me, but I didn't receive anything. Maybe it was also 
because I had first given her the address of the Berlin 
Hotel, and then I lived in the Kronprinzen Palace. But 
I went everyday to the hotel to ask for mail and I didn't 
get any. 

WESCHLER: Well, at any rate . 

FEUCHTWANGER: So I went back to America. And he said if 
I could get a checkbook, then I could get some money also 


out. But I have to have a checkbook first. And then he 
came even to my plane. It's not allowed to go on the air- 
port; you have to have a special permission. He was the 
only one who came out to the plane. He said, "Please come 
out of your plane. We have everything prepared so you 
can get some money." So it's still there. 

WESCHLER: Do you have any intention of going back to Russia 
to get it? 

FEUCHTWANGER : It could always happen sometime. I don't 
know. Anyway, it's safe there, and it belongs to me. And 
they also told me that I could buy a dacha — you know what 
that is, a country house — with the money. And then you 
remember when Brecht got money from [this fund] . 

FEUCHTWANGER: So it has some purpose. I said I would like 
to buy an icon, but that I couldn't do. It's not allowed 
to get works of art out of Russia. But every day I got 
money for pocket money. I always said I don't need any 
money because I'm always invited and I have the hotel 
(it was a whole suite there) . But they insisted I have 
to take it. And I could only spend it there; it's not 
allowed to get any money out. So, when I was at the airport, 
I looked in every pocket, and I had some money. So I gave 
it all to my friends who were around and said, "Please give 
that to the porter, give that to the girl who was in my 


hotel, and to my interpreter or everybody who wants some 

money — give it to them." 

WESCHLER: So you were a very big tipper. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Okay, well, we'll stop for today then. Next 

session, we'll begin to wrap up, and do a last group of 

things about Los Angeles. 


OCTOBER 15, 1975 

WESCHLER: Today we wanted again to mention many of your 
friends here in Los Angeles through the last decade. You 
were mentioning to me that you find that many of them are 
musical people now. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, that is true. There are almost no 
literary people except maybe Carl Sandburg and Norman Corwin, 
and most have to do with music. 

One of my best friends who I liked most dearly is 
Dorothy Huttenback. It was very funny how we met her, 
the first time: It was at the house of Jakob Gimpel, 
who used to play for his friends his program which he 
played in Germany, or in Europe, on his guest performances. 
And there Lion was attracted by her, by her intense face 
which so easily could change into a very charming smile, 
when she thought about her funny stories or her jokes 
which she had always in mind. And also I found out that 
she usually made jokes when something was in her ad- 
vantage, when somebody would speak about what she has 
achieved. For instance, everybody here knows that she 
founded and managed the Music Guild, and it's a very true 
following she has, a great following. All those people 
meet in the courtyard [of the Wilshire Ebell] before the 


doors are opened. And it is like a club: although not 

all the people know each other personally by name, everybody 

speaks to the other. And they are all aficionados of those 

concerts, which are usually the best quartets in the world — 

the Juilliard Quartet or the Budapest Quartet and all — and 

everybody is expecting the greatest performance which also.... 

You can read afterwards in the newspaper that it was a great 


WESCHLER: These are her achievements, these concerts. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, she founded the Guild and managed it. 

And she invites those people to come and play. Sometimes they 

even do it for less money than for other people. For instance, 

every year about, Marilyn Home gives a concert there. She 

does it only for friendship; nobody could afford to pay her 

here because she is so famous now. Dorothy discovered Marilyn 

Home. Not only does [Dorothy] arrange those great concerts, 

but she also takes care of the artists. Once an Italian 

pianist fell very ill, and Dorothy went through the heavy traffic 

and a long way — I accompanied her, because I wanted just to be 

with her — and she brought food and medication and comfort to 

this lady who was really very sick. The others were only 

men- — it was a quintet — and she was very unhappy and lived 

in a poor hotel downtown. But Dorothy never wanted that 

anybody would mention what she is doing there. She didn't 

do it only once — she went every day there to bring food. 


And when somebody would mention that, she makes some jokes 
or says a funny story. She is very modest. But every- 
body loves her, and when she had her seventy-fifth 
birthday, the whole city was participating. She got an 
award by the mayor and by the supervisors, and fantastic 
speeches have been made. It was in a most beautiful part 
of the Beverly Hilton Hotel, high up on a tower. And all 
that was only because she is so popular. 
WESCHLER: You were saying how you first met her. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, yes. I met her first at Gimpel's house. 
But then we didn't see each other for a long time anymore, 
and then the second time we met her at the party which has 
been given by Milton Sperling, who is a movie magnate, 
for Stravinsky's seventieth birthday. 
WESCHLER: Stravinsky was there? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , he was there. He was very sick, and 
everybody doubted that he would come, but really in the 
end he came. 

WESCHLER: And did he enjoy this party? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes. We were very curious to meet him, of 
course. We met him later on many times again. And he was 
always very nice with my husband. I told you, I think, about 
when my husband came to him for help for Hanns Eisler, that 
immediately he helped and did all he could for Hanns Eisler. 
WESCHLER: You could tell more details. I'm not sure we have 


that on tape. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I spoke about that. It was when my 
husband came first to Schoenberg. Schoenberg was the 
teacher of Eisler. And Schoenberg said he didn't want to 
have to be involved in any way in those Communistic 
things. And then Lion went to Stravinsky, who was not a 
Communist either, but he immediately was very helpful and 
did a lot to--I don't know — approach people who were in 
power. And it's helped also for Eisler. 
WESCHLER: So, returning to this party. . . . 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, and then we were at this party, and 
when we just left, then Piatigorsky came (or maybe we 
just didn't see him before) to my husband; and they spoke 
about that Piatigorsky doesn't want to concertize anymore. 
We were very disappointed, but fortunately this mood has 
changed, and he did many more performances for years to 
come. But in this moment we were just very discouraged 
when he told us that. So then we went to our car, and I 
found out that I had my key inside the car, which is an 
inconvenience of the Buick (which I usually liked very 
much--it was the car which I always drove since the twenties) 
And Mrs. Huttenback probably saw my face, my sheepish ex- 
pression, and she came to the rescue. She asked me what hap- 
pened. And I said that I didn't have a key, and she im- 
mediately offered to bring us home so I could get the 


reserve key. And then we went back. She also took 
Marilyn Home with her because she thought Marilyn Home 

would like to meet Lion Feuchtwanger . And we were very 
privileged to meet her. She was then an absolute unknown, 
but Dorothy Huttenback sent her to Germany because she 
said she has no other possibilities for opera than to go 
to Germany. And then later, of course, she became--she is 
now the greatest, I think, living singer. 
WESCHLER: So you have stayed friends with Dorothy all 
through the years. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, we are always friends. And when I was 
very sick, she called me. And because I was so sick in 
the spring, she called me for the Jewish New Year. She 
is not a believer--neither am I--but she told me that she 
prayed for me, that I should keep always healthy. [laughter] 
A little prayer for me. 

WESCHLER: The next time I get sick, I hope she prays for 
me and has such good results! 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. [laughter] What she did also for the 
Mehtas, you know. She helped Mehli Mehta when he came here. 
He was absolutely lost, and she helped them so fantastic- 
ally; she drove them around, and also for--also Zubin 
Mehta was not so well known in those times. And what she 
did for the Mehtas — they are also very grateful to her 
and recognize it. And through her I also met the Mehtas. 


We are very good friends with Mehli Mehta and Mrs. Mehta ; 
the young ones I do not see so often. 
WESCHLER: What is Mehli Mehta like? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, he's very energetic and enthusiastic. 
He is a fantastic conductor, also, for the youth concerts, 
you know. And those young people — what he achieves with 
them, it's amazing, unbelievable. And he does that all 
with enthusiasm. And Zubin Mehta told me once that his 
father didn't allow him that he ever take the music 
with him: he has to conduct everything by heart. "If 
you don't do it," he said, "from the beginning" — he was the 
first teacher of his son — "you are not worth to be a con- 
ductor." And he himself also never uses music. The most 
difficult things he conducts.... 
WESCHLER: By memory. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , by memory. But the most important thing 
is what he is achieving with the young people. 
WESCHLER: Another one of your friends are the Coes. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, the Coes. It's very funny: when 
I met her first. . . . She told me that she met us first 
at a party at a cousin of hers, but there were so many 
people that I didn't remember having met her. This party 
was in Beverly Hills, and was at the actor Leon Askin's 
house; he is a very good actor and director also, a charac- 
ter actor. And he had so many people that he had to have 


a big tent over his whole garden. The most memorable 
thing was that it rained and this tent leaked, and 
very many people got wet. He went around with his um- 
brella and helped everybody to get at least dry into 
the car. But it didn't diminish our pleasure; it was more 
an addition to the pleasure. And there she was also-- 
but I didn't remember then. But when I was at the concert 
in the Philharmonic when Bruno Walter conducted Schubert's 
Unfinished Symphony — I got my tickets always from Mr. 
Scudder (I told you about it) , who was one of the founders 
of the Philharmonic — when I was there, in the intermission, 
she came to me and said, "Oh, we know each other from the 
ocean." And then I recognized her: at first, I saw her 
only in the bathing suit (I was also in the bathing suit) ; 
but she said, oh, yes, she went every day almost to the 
ocean, and we met there. I usually was leaving when she 
came, but we had always a word to speak. But I wouldn't 
have recognized her in the evening dress. And then some- 
body from the Los Angeles Times, who was there for the 
concert, because it was always a great event when Bruno 
Walter conducted--they must have overheard our conver- 
sation and took a picture of us because this picture was 
almost over the whole page of View, and we could see each 
other, not in bathing suits but in evening dresses. 
WESCHLER: Who exactly are the Goes? 


FEUCHTWANGER: They have a very beautiful house, an old 
Spanish house. . . . 

WESCHLER: The house that you used to live in. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, we lived in it before they bought it. 
But for us it was not big enough for the books which my 
husband wanted to acquire ([even though] he didn't have 
many yet) . [Willard Coe] is a descendant of the Duke of 
Osuna of Spain, and he has also big estates in Santa 
Barbara. And she calls him always "the Santa Barbarian." 
She was an opera diva and the daughter of a Jewish hard- 
ware store owner. She has fantastic jewelry, and she 
always calls her jewelry her "hardware." [laughter] And 
they are very well known as very sociable and hospitable, 
and there are musicals at their house. I remember she 
gave a musical for Korngold once, and then she gave a big 
party when your grandfather Ernst Toch got the honorary 
degree of the Hebrew Union College. So in the house of the 
descendant of the Duke of Osuna, she invited all those 
people from the Hebrew Union College, [laughter] And 
she said, "I want to [show] my grandson what Jewish things 
are about." Because there was also the president of the 
Hebrew Union College, Nelson Gluck--he was a famous archae- 
ologist; he discovered the King Solomon Mines, and the 
scrolls and all that. And he was so generous that after 
he gave Toch his doctorate — you know, that's always big 


robes and so--he spoke for an hour about his achievement 
in making his findings, excavating, as an archaeologist 
in Israel. For a whole hour, he told the most interest- 
ing things. He said also that the war in '67 couldn't 
have been ended so fast and so victorious if they had not 
found in scrolls and also in the Bible the roads which 
go through the desert, through the Sinai Desert. These 
roads were still harder under the sand to go through 
with the artillery, and also they knew where the sources 
were for water and oases. And they made the whole war on 
those old remembrances of the Bible where it said where 
the pass through the desert goes. And all those things he 
told us about his findings. It was a memorable evening. 
WESCHLER: And this all took place at the house of the 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, it was all there. And we used to go 
together many times, even now, because they don't live 
far from me, to concerts or other events. And it's also 
very funny. She always tells a funny story about me, that 
I'm so loyal as a friend: he once almost run through a 
red light, and she said, "You shouldn't do that. You will 
get a ticket." And then I said, "If there were a police- 
man, I would swear it was yellow." [laughter] And since 
then she says how loyal I am, that I would even swear that, 
[pause in tape] 


WESCHLER: Another very musical aficionado family are 
the Lappens . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, the Lappens live in the house which 
Thomas Mann built. They bought it from the son of Thomas 
Mann, who lived there with another musician, the composer 
and conductor. . . 
WESCHLER: . . . Lukas Foss? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Lukas Foss, yes, they lived together. 
And the funny thing was that when they lived there, Lukas 
Foss wanted to make an opera of the Goya , of my husband's 
Goya novel. Michael Mann wanted to write the libretto and 
Foss compose — but then both left here. Michael Mann became 
professor in Berkeley, and Lukas Foss, I think, is in 
Philadelphia as conductor. So it never came to pass. 
WESCHLER: But now living there instead... 
FEUCHTWANGER: ...and now are the Lappens there, and they 
improved the house very much. They have a beautiful swimming 
pool there with a Jacuzzi. And they have also beautiful 
parties, once a great musical also by Temianka. And there 
Chancellor [Franklin] Murphy, who was still chancellor 
there at UCLA (he is now a bigshot at the L.A. Times ) , in- 
troduced Temianka to the present and the future members. And 
also Vern Knudsen was there. He was for Temianka really a 
rock of Gibraltar because at first it was really hard until 
the whole association was going. Now it is always sold 


out and has great write-ups, and I was very happy that 
Vern Knudsen lived so long to see that Temianka finally 
had his great success. 

WESCHLER: Did you know Franklin Murphy at all? 
FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, yes, I know him, ja, ja. I met him 
when he just came here. I met him at a party — I think it 
was at Dean [Robert] Nelson's, who was then dean of the 
Music Department. It was just when UCLA had acquired a 
beautiful collection; I think it was a collection of 
beautiful violins, antique violins and all that. And 
Murphy came and said that he had a big--I think it 
had something to do with Irvine, with the acquiring of the 
estate of Irvine. All those things--he was so glowing of 
enthusiasm and activity, and he impressed me very much 
about that. And he was also interested in me, it seems, 
because when Dean Melnitz gave a party, he asked Dr. Mel- 
nitz to invite me, too, and so he escorted me there. And 
since then we meet--the last time I met him again at the 
Allegro Ball of Temianka. And he always supported Temianka 
very much. He's now the head of the Los Angeles Times . 
And he just left in time, I think, before the whole thing 
with Nixon and all that came out. I think he did far 
better to go.... [pause in tape] 

When I was invited by Chancellor Murphy once for his 
musical — it was very hot on this day, and this very 


beautiful place where he lived in the university, with a 

great lawn and beautiful trees, had on one side a podium 

for the musical. But I don't know what happened: the 

chairs were delivered by a firm which always did those 

things, but they were not put in place. And I was just 

about, with others, to help to put those chairs in place, 

and then Mr. Murphy came out of the house. He didn't know 

about it, and when he saw me, he was very indignant. 

He said I shouldn't do that. But he and his wife and I 

and somebody else — I think it was my secretary; I had brought 

her with me to help — we all carried the chairs there. And 

I found this--you know, coming from Europe, a chancellor of 

the university carrying the chairs for the musical, it 

was so new to me, and it was just.... 

WESCHLER: Not to speak of the widow of the great novelist. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. No. [laughter] I wasn't thinking of 

that. But it just was fantastic. I admired him very 

much--I always admire him very much, for his enthusiasm 

in whatever he does. 

WESCHLER: Well, getting back to the musical thing, do 

you know the [Louis] Kaufmans? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, the Kaufmans are one of my best friends. 

They are also, I could say, the only people I know who have 

really no enemies. They are very much interested in 

everything, not only music. They are very renowned musicians. 


he a violinist and she [Annette] a pianist. They also 

gave musicals in their house sometimes, and helped other 

composers, most of the composers. For instance, [Mario 

Castelnuovo-lTedesco: they performed a tape of one of 

his operas. And also [David] Tamkin, who now died — 

they made a kind of foundation for him. They do always 

things for other people; they never think about themselves. 

And also, not only they are going around in the city to 

perform, sometimes I go with them in the car--but also 

they make big trips abroad, not only to make themselves 

more knowledgeable, but also because they bring beautiful 

artifacts back with them. And then they show to their friends 

interesting slides of their travels which they made. And 

this is always a great event for everybody who is invited 


WESCHLER: Having been at one of them, I can also testify 

that there are wonderful dinners which precede the slides. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, they always make a buffet dinner of 

those dishes they learned during their travels and all 

the condiments which they used. 

WESCHLER: Another person that we want to talk about is 

Pia Gilbert. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, Pia Gilbert is, I think, my best friend 

here. Although we don't see each other very often, we 

know that we exist, and that's enough. When I was very 


sick, I didn't tell her because I knew that she would come 
right away, and I didn't want her to because I had the 
flu and she shouldn't catch it from me. But then she called 
me always and said if she shouldn't bring me some chicken 
soup. [laughter] Which is very much in her family prob- 
ably: they always ate chicken soup when they were sick. 
WESCHLER: How did you meet Pia? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I met her, I think, through Lilly Toch. 
She introduced us at the Schoenberg Hall after a dance 
performance. Pia is the composer of dance music and also 
the conductor [at UCLA] . And we immediately were attracted 
to each other. Then she came with her mother once, who 
lived in New York. For her mother, the name of Lion 
Feuchtwanger was a revelation; she knew all his work and 
was very excited to be in the house of Lion Feuchtwanger. 
And she wrote me letters afterwards, when she returned. She 
died suddenly, and the last letter came after she had 
died. And I think the relation between her mother and me 
also is a great binding between Pia and me. I think maybe 
I replace in a way her mother. [pause in tape] I also 
wanted to tell you about her music. What she composed for 
the dances is mostly very exciting music; it is not easily 
to describe. It is absolutely unusual. It gives very much. 
It is just music for dancing, with unusual instruments and 
sometimes very exotic. And all the other compositions 


are not to be compared with hers; hers are so much more 
interesting and original. 

WESCHLER: Moving from the musical figures to literary 
figures: you said at the beginning of this tape — and I don't 
want to let it pass — you mentioned Carl Sandburg and Ray 
Bradbury. Perhaps you can pursue that. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, those two were for me very revealing. 
Sandburg, I met the first time when a man [Leonard 
Karzma] who was an admirer of Sandburg and my husband gave 
a dinner for the both of them. And there I met also Ray 
Bradbury and Groucho Marx — in the same evening. It was a 
very short time before my husband died. It was the last 
party he attended. Later on, I met Sandburg again be- 
cause he invited me to an evening which was called "The 
World of Carl Sandburg" which Norman Corwin wrote. It 
was a very beautiful evening. Bette Davis spoke and [Gary] 
Merrill, and they were reciting from the poetry. And 
afterwards Sandburg gave also a party where I was invited, 
and both of us had very good relationship. I have a pic- 
ture here if you want to see it also. And Norman Corwin, 
he came also to read. I think I told you that once he 
was here to read one of my husband's novels for the English- 
speaking friends when it was already translated into 
English. I think it was The Jewess of Toledo. And also I 
saw a performance of his play which was about Lincoln and 


Douglas and was called The Rivals . It was made out of the 
letters of both of them. He's a very gifted man and is 
writing a lot for television. 
WESCHLER: How about Ray Bradbury? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ray Bradbury — he's really a revelation 
for me. I was so happy to meet him because I saw three 
one-acts of him. I usually don't like science fiction — I 
have to tell that beforehand. But my husband was a great 
admirer of his book Fahrenheit 451 . 

WESCHLER: I should think that with this library your 
husband would be. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja. And then afterwards I saw those 
three one-acts. One is The Veldt --the most gruesome things, 
but it is so poetical, about children who hate their parents 
and send them out to the veldt to die there. And also another 
[To the Chicago Abyss ] one which is like the Big Brother. 
Two men are going out with the car, and there is nobody 
there; you see only the city in the rear, a kind of silhou- 
ette of the city, and you hear only voices that they have to 
go back to their car and go home. It is very eerie. And 
then another one is about The Wonderful Ice Cream Suit . 
It is about blacks who are very enthusiastic about a suit 
which one has and everybody can have it once, this suit. 
It's about what they live through with this suit. It's 
also really fantastic and humorous and also very eerie. 


He's a great poet. 

WESCHLER: And then you met him, 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he was here to see the library and 

we meet each other very often. And he also invites me 

always when he has a new play. And for a while, he was 

also president of Temianka's [California Chamber Symphony] 

Society, it is called. 

WESCHLER: Does he have any eccentricities? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I only know about his private life that 

he doesn't drive a car and doesn't like to fly. But 

he has always friends who bring him home and pick him up. 

And then his wife is driving, or his daughters. But it's 

very funny that a man who has to do with science fiction 

does not drive or fly. 

WESCHLER: Maybe he's waiting until he can be in rockets 

instead. . . . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , maybe. Or until somebody can fly without 

a plane, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Okay. I'm just going to name some of the other 

people who we've talked about before the session who you 

wanted to talk about on tape, including Professor [Cornelius] 

Schnauber , 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, Professor Schnauber. He is at USC in 

the German department, and he was now away for a whole year 

on his sabbatical in Austria. And he just called me that 


he is back. And he will probably be the next dean of 
the German department. Dean Von Hofe, my great friend, is now 
also dean of the graduate school, and he cannot probably 
do both of them. Professor Schnauber is a very knowledge- 
able man who is an enthusiastic teacher--most of all, his 
enthusiasm is contagious for his students, and this is very 
important. Also, in this book which you have, in one of 
the essays, I think he writes about the theater of Feucht- 
wanger. [ "Feuchtwanger as a Theater Critic," in Lion 
Feuchtwanger : The Man, His Ideas , His Work (John Spalek, 
editor) ] 

WESCHLER: Right. Okay, another man has a very curious 
name, [Heinz] Saueressig. 

FEUCHTWANGER: In English that would be "sour vinegar." 
WESCHLER: What's his first name, with a last name like 

FEUCHTWANGER: I don't remember. He always signs only 
with the first letter of his first name. 

FEUCHTWANGER: He was once introduced to me, and then he 
came to see the library. And the funny thing is he never 
mentions anymore this man who introduced him to me; I think 
he has no relationship anymore with this man. But we two 
have a great friendship now. And he is a very interesting 
man. He has a great pharmaceutical manufacture in Germany, 


in a small place, but it must be a very important manu- 
facture because he makes a lot of money. His hobby is 
to bring out every year a big album with reproduction of 
famous paintings and drawings which have to do with medi- 
cines or with sicknesses--skin sickness or a dissection 
of Rembrandt, mostly medieval or even earlier, pictures 
which are more interesting, and with the plague. Whatever 
a famous painter painted which has to do something with 
sickness, he collects those things. And once he gave out 
an album which was only about the heart, and what people 
like maybe Leonardo da Vinci wrote about the heart and 
made also pictures about it — very interesting things. And 
I'm very happy that he always sends them to me. And he sends me 
always — I am not a subscriber of German newspapers. He 
always finds out where my husband has been played, or a 
new book has been published, and he sends me the critic, 
and reviews in the newspapers, and every gossip which he 
finds about artists or literati or writers whom I know. He's 
really a good friend; I could say that. The last time I 
met him was at UCLA, where he was for a whole seminar about 
emigration literature. 

WESCHLER: Okay. Now I'd like to turn to something which I 
think is going to surprise the readers of our index; when 
we finally index this thing, people will be surprised to find 
the Watts Towers listed in the index. But you've been rather 


important in its history. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, the Watts Towers was for me a 
great event. 

VffiSCHLER: You might describe what they are for 
starters . 

FEUCHTWANGER: A young lady from the German consulate 
brought me there the first time. 
VJESCHLER: Ingeborg Kurtze. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ingeborg Kurtze, yes, and it was absolutely 
a revelation to see this. I was very lucky: it was a good 
day; it was a sunny day with blue sky. And when you see 
those towers.... I don't know if you know who made them. 
It was Simon Rodia. He was an Italian, a very poor man. 
He lived here, and he found that it was a good life here, 
although he was very poor; and he thought he should do some- 
thing for this country. He was lucky here, or was happy 
here. So he gathered old bottles or shells and broken 
cutlery and broken cups and dishes and everything--and he 
built two towers. In fact, there are three (one is a very 
little one), and they look like the spires of Gothic towers- 
but only the spires. And when you come there, you see the 
blue sky looking through, because it's not always compact, 
[pause in tape] It's almost like lacework because you can 
look through it. It is in the middle of a very poor part 
of Watts, the part of the blacks here. And there you find 


these really eerie and elegant towers, and nobody knows 
about it. I always say the only really great attraction in 
Los Angeles are the Watts Towers. And maybe the other is 
Disneyland, because it's also unique for America. But the 
Watts Towers is something that has to do with art, and this 
was a really amazing experience. When we saw that, Ingeborg 
Kurtze took pictures of me before the towers — I liked the 
towers better without me, I must say. But right beside it 
was a little picturesque house with some psychedelic 
flowers painted on it where the cracks were so you wouldn't 
see the cracks so much, and there was written, with very 
uneven letters, "Museum." So we thought we go in there. 
And when we came in, there was a black man who was very glad 
to see us. He said there are etchings by black people 
hanging everywhere, and they are all for sale. And in this 
moment, the door opened, and a whole number of little black 
children came in, girls with their hairs in tresses, and boys, 
little boys, very clean--and right away on a big table they 
began to draw. And this man was their teacher. He also 
sold those etchings. And I found some very beautiful 
[etchings] — one, a dove of Picasso, or something like Picasso, 
and the other were the towers--and I bought them for New 
Year's cards. I send those New Year's cards to all my friends 
I gave him some bills, and he wanted to give me back some 
money, but I said, "Oh, keep it for the children." And from 


then on I got always invitations. When everything happened 
in Watts Towers or in the museum. 

Finally, I was invited for a meeting to save the 
Watts Towers because the city wanted to tear them down. 
They said they are not safe--which was not true; they were 
very safe. Nobody could understand it. And there was 
also Anna Bing [Arnold] --you know, the famous patron here. 
I don't know who had the idea to get money for the Watts 
Towers in the form of deeds, a deed for buying a house. 
So they printed deeds, and those deeds were absolutely 
like those contracts for buying a house. And there was 
written, or printed, "Every dollar buys an inch." And also 
that everybody who gives money for this purpose will have 
free entrance for he or she and the whole family and the 
children and the children's children. 
WESCHLER: Perpetual access to the towers. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. But the money was mostly used not 
just to keep in shape the house but to build another museum, 
which was not really a museum but a kind of art school, 
also for drawing and printing, for printing of material-- 
for children, and also for industrial art. So the children 
were taught there. 

WESCHLER: The towers were saved, then. 

FEUCHTWANGER: The towers were saved, and the museum was 


WESCHLER: Why did the city decide not to destroy the 


FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, right away, when we said we had money 

to keep them in shape. The city didn't want to spend the 

money for it. And I think Mrs. Anna Bing had something to 

do with it. And another man here who was from the movies, 

who had also a workshop for writers there.... 

WESCHLER: Budd Schulberg. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. He also had his hand in that. And I 

began then, too. I got those very handsome deed forms, 

and wherever I was invited, I brought those formulas with 

me. I gave them to the guests and the host, and I said, 

"To me the heck if they don't invite me anymore." [laughter] 

But I didn't go to my best friends. I never asked for 

money; even for a great purpose, I never asked my friends. 

But anyway, everybody was interested, and I got a lot 

of money for that. And I also sent one of the etchings to 

Mr. Simons in Detroit. And this Mr. Simons--! met him 

on another occasion. 

WESCHLER: This is Leonard Simons? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Leonard Simons. He was a great advertising 

man, and those people usually make a lot of money. He 

once called me here because he said he read an article 

about me by Ralph Friedman, who wrote about me in a 

magazine. The [Chicago Jewish] Forum. 


WESCHLER: This was in the Summer 1963 issue. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. But it was much later when he called 
me — it was when he came here, you know. He said that 
he read once an article about me and he wants to meet me. 
Then he invited me to the Beverly Hills Hotel — where he 
has always a suite when he is living here — for dinner. And 
from this moment on there is a great friendship between 
us. He always tells me that if I need something I should 
shout so he would hear it in Detroit. So I wrote him and 
asked him to contribute to the museum, and then he wrote 
back, when I told him every dollar buys an inch, he said, 
"How many yards should I buy?" I said, "The sky is the limit." 
[laughter] And then, for my eightieth birthday, for 
every year I lived, he gave one dollar. So he has always 
a reason to contribute something. And he made also great 
friendships. Through me he met the biographer of my hus- 
band. Dr. Lothar Kahn, and there is a great friendship 
between those two now. He is a man of many interests. 
He also had something to do with the first cars which 
have been built in Detroit. He founded, I think, a foun- 
dation [the Simons-Michaelson Foundation] , and he has a 
lot of honorary doctorate diplomas. He sends me always 
the articles he writes, or articles about him. And 
then he adds always, "Response not necessary." [laughter] 
WESCHLER: You just now mentioned Dr. Lothar Kahn. His 


book [ Insight and Action ; The Life and Work of Lion 
Feuchtwanger ] is about to be published. Can you tell 
us a little bit about him? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, he was here one Christmas. Instead 
of feting with his family, he came here to interview me, 
and for five days he was here. We spoke during those 
five days .... 

WESCHLER: Who is he? Where does he teach? 
FEUCHTWANGER: He's teaching at [Central] Connecticut 
[State College] . It took him many years to write 
this biography, but now it will come out, I think, 
before Christmas. And you have seen the publishing 

WESCHLER: Fairleigh Dickinson University Press. Can 
you describe him a little bit? What is he like? 
FEUCHTWANGER: He looks like a poet. He has blue eyes and 
is also rather romantic looking. But he is not romantic. 
He is very matter-of-fact. But he doesn't look like 
that. And he also wrote a book-- Mirrors of the Jewish 
Mind --which is a rather famous book. We had an enormous — 
our correspondence, I think, has three volumes, in those 
big folders, you know. And he took also part of my memoirs 
and used [them] for reference for the past, or our past. 
And sometimes our correspondence was a little--what shall 
I say?--lively. [laughter] But still we are very good 



WESCHLER: That was the most diplomatic choice of words I've 
ever heard. 

FEUCHTWANGER: But we are very good friends, and our cor- 
respondence, I think, is rather interesting. 
WESCHLER: Okay, a few other people to mention before we 
conclude — the Zippers. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I would also like to speak about 
[Grant] Beglarian, who is the dean of performing arts, 
I think it's called, at USC. He has also great parties in 
his house, rather far away from here, over the freeways, but 
I'm always looking forward to come to him. He is himself 
a very interesting person. His face is really very sharp, 
and the bone structure of his head is so beautiful, I think. 
You know him, yes? 

FEUCHTWANGER: And at his house, I met also Dr. [Herbert] 
Zipper. This was a great event because we both were so 
glad to meet each other. We had so many common friends — 
for instance, Ernst Toch also. He was from Vienna, and he 
knew everything and all the work of my husband. And his 
wife [Trude] is so charming and gracious. We see each 
other very often, and we were very glad to know each other. 
He performed beautifully one of the Schoenberg works, the 
Pierrot Lunaire, and it was fantastic. Did you see this 


fantastic performance? 

WESCHLER: Yes, for the centennial dedication of the Schoen- 

berg Institute. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja, ja, a fantastic performance. It should 

be performed more often, I think. I have thought the 

other day I should mention it to people in other cities, 

that it should be performed. 

WESCHLER: Particularly his production of it. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, fantastic, beautiful. 


OCTOBER 15, 19 7 5 

WESCHLER: Okay, this looks like it's going to be our 
last tape, so I'd like to talk about some concluding kinds 
of overall perspectives on the past and also the future 
now. One comment I read about Lion — I believe he was talking 
about himself--really struck me. It could almost be a 
motto. One of the people I read said that Lion de- 
scribed himself as "a German novelist whose heart beat 

Jewish and whose mind was cosmopolitan." 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja , that's true. 

WESCHLER: How would you talk about the status of his 

achievement, now — what is it? Fifteen years, more than 

fifteen years since his death--looking back, what do you 

see as the major accomplishments of his writing and his 


FEUCHTWANGER: I think his greatest work--and he thought 

so himself — was the trilogy of Flavius Josephus. Maybe 

even it will come again because it will be printed again 

now. [Recently] it was considered by Robert Kirsch — 

he wrote once in one of his reviews about another writer, 

he wrote that Lion Feuchtwanger ' s Flavius Josephus is the 

best historical novel of this century. So this is since 

still considered like that. But what is more now in the 


eye of the people is his book Success . They are making now 
a movie out of it, and it's more interesting mostly for 
young people. Everywhere in the whole world I get 
letters that they are reading it, that it's required in the 
universities, that they are making doctoral dissertations 
in South America and in Sweden, everywhere, and also some 
already teachers make their dissertations about Feucht- 
wanger. And always it's Success . Between the novels 
or the Josephus trilogy and his last novel, he wrote 
another book, Goya , the novel about Goya. And this, I 
think, has the greatest edition, the highest number of 
editions, in all the countries — it was translated in 
thirty languages. And also it has been made a movie out 
of it. (I think I told you about it already. And this 
will come; probably in spring, it will be shown again for 
a big cultural occasion.) And those three books, I think, 
are his best. Those books are the ones which are still 
alive, most alive. 

WESCHLER: One of the things that I found very interesting, 
as I was doing the research, is the way in which, with some 
minor variations. Lion's work divides into historical novels 
on the one hand, and then contemporary novels on the other, 
things that he was writing about contemporary subjects (the 
rise of Hitler, the status of being in exile, things like 
that) . And perhaps one of the indications of his power as a 


novelist is that for me — for whom reading about Hitler is 
historical, in a way not that remotely different from 
reading about Goya or reading about someone else — that same 
kind of levelness of perspective [persists]. In a way, as 
the generations go, all of his novels will become "his- 
torical" novels, even the "contemporary" ones. 
FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, you are right. He knew that, because 
when he wrote also the novel Success about the first 
Hitler Putsch and the inflation in Germany, he wrote from 
the point of view of 2000, looking back to this time. 
He felt that most of the books which have to do not with 
private or sentimental or feeling topics will be very soon 
historical books. The modern books are also already now 
historical books in a way. 

WESCHLER: Oddly though — another thing that's curious about 
his writing — his historical books are also really, in certain 
ways, timeless. I mean, it may be that it's about Goya, 
but it really is about all [time] . 

FEUCHTWANGER: Ja. For instance, he said always, "Human 
beings have not changed. As long as they exist they are 
always the same. The events have changed, but not the 
human being. " So he could look at the historical things 
from his point of view, from his time. And he said always, 
"I want to show not the ashes but the flame of the history." 
WESCHLER: You're now almost eighty-five years old, and you've 


lived through the period that is said to be the period of 

the greatest change in history. Would you say that you 

agree that human beings don't change fundamentally? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I would agree with that. 

WESCHLER: What kinds of things have changed, if the basic 

human being hasn't? 

FEUCHTWANGER: I think the technical things have changed 

mostly. But not much of.... In the Bible there is a priest 

who is called Ben Akibah who says everything was already 

before. He already says this in the Bible. And you can 

find in history almost every event happened before. For 

instance, when you read Werfel, The Forty Days of Musa 

Dagh , that is the persecution of the Armenians, and that was 

before the Jews have been persecuted. So always those un- 

human things can happen, and at the same moment can great 

humanities and human things happen. 

WESCHLER: Are there any things that are really difficult 

for you to accept about America in 1975 from when you were 

a child in Munich, things that...? 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, I would always say that nothing human is 

alien to me. 

WESCHLER: Okay, one story before we end which I wanted you 

to tell is also something you just mentioned offhand a while 

ago, which I found very interesting about a certain kind 

of formality among Germans. 


FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know how it is now, but I know 

that in our time only when we were in school together 

[did] we speak to each other as du, which is the more 

familiar way [to say] "you." And I know that Lion always, 

all his friends, they called themselves by the second 

name, by their family name, and never du. For instance, 

"Brecht" and "Feuchtwanger . " My husband said, "Brecht" — 

and not Bert — and they also said Sie . And Brecht called him 

always "Doctor," or "Feuchtwanger." The only friend 

with whom he was on this du relation was Bruno Frank, 

who insisted to speak du with him. This has always been done 

when you drink brotherhood, as they say; you have to drink 

a glass of wine. But then the friendship of Frank didn't 

endure so long, was not so intense as the other friendships 


WESCHLER: Did you find the easy familiarity of Americans 


FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I was very much amazed. When we came 

here--it was so funny--my husband wanted to have a sport 

coat. So we went to Santa Monica, into a shop, and he 

found a coat, and then he paid with a check. And the name 

was immediately familiar to the man, the owner of the shop, and 

he said, "Oh, what a great honor to have Mr. Feuchtwanger 

here!" And when we left, he slapped my husband on the 

back and said, "Good to have you folks." And we were 


so amazed that first he speaks about his admiration, and 
then he has this unformality that he slapped my husband 
on the back and says, "Good to have you here, folks." 
From then on, I knew what America is. And I liked it 
very much. I always said there is no country which is so 
democratic as America because everybody has the same — 
all the men have the same dress. They look the same, 
if they are rich or not, because they have this beautiful.. 
First of all, the [fabrics] here, the ready-made dress- 
es, are so much better here than in Europe. In Europe, 
when you would have been well dressed, a man had to have 
costume made only by a tailor. And also, with this 
[pause in tape] installment plan, everybody can have an 
icebox or a television or so. That was not the way in 
Europe: there was a greater difference in living. But 
here, with installment, everybody can have the best 
things, the electronic things which he needs--the icebox. 
Thermos and vacuum cleaner, everything. Everybody can buy 

WESCHLER: Not all the emigres were able to adapt so 
easily or enthusiastically to America. 

FEUCHTWANGER: No, they were very--you know, "by us," they 
were called always, even in Israel; they called those who 
came from Germany die Bieunsur . "By us," you know — where we 
came from. And they always found everything was better 


in Europe than here. 

It took me a time to get adjusted to the prices 
because when we came to New York, we were used to pay 
almost nothing for vegetables or fruit. When I bought 
a salad and had to pay--in those days--twenty-f ive cents, 
I found that terribly expensive because it was just five 
cents or less even in Europe. But when we were used 
to it--and also people earn more here, so that's no dif- 
ference anymore. 

WESCHLER: One of the delights of talking with you is the 
way in which you are so open. I mean you spent — 
what? — I was about to say almost half of your life in 
America, and it was a major transition, but you negotiated 
it with ease. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Immediately I felt at home in America. 
I didn't feel at home in France. I lived several years 
in France, and I always felt as if I were at a spa. It 
was very beautiful, the people were very nice to us, but 
we never had real friends there. And also there was 
not this camaraderie or this easy-going which you see here. 
I think it must have something to do with the mixture of 
the people here. They come from so many countries, so you 
have something in common with everybody. 

WESCHLER: It's partly that, but it's also that you inspire 
camaraderie in the people that you meet. 


FEUCHTWANGER: I don't know,... 

WESCHLER: Well, that's true. I suppose the last thing 

I wanted to ask you for is just a sense of how you're 

living these days. What are your plans for the future now? 

FEUCHTWANGER: Oh, I don't make any plans. I just live 

from one day to the other, [laughter] For instance, 

when I go on a trip to Europe or so, I never make plans 

before — just [as long as I] have time to get a ticket 

for the plane. For instance, when I went to Europe, I 

was only going there for the opening in Mainz of the 

Feuchtwanger Room at the academy. And then I stayed 

there and went to Berlin, to West Berlin and to East Berlin, 

and to Russia, and to Czechoslovakia--! had no plans for 


WESCHLER: You're living an oddly Bohemian existence. 

FEUCHTWANGER: Yes, I never give up with that, [laughter] 

WESCHLER: Well, I hate to have to keep you down, but 

over the next few months you'll be doing an awful lot of 

paperwork with these transcripts.... 

FEUCHTWANGER: I have always to do lots of paperwork. I 

should have gone now to the East. I have been asked by 

several universities to speak with students — not to give 

lectures, just to speak to students--because they heard 

that I did that here. But I just couldn't do it now. So 

I told them they have to wait a little bit. 


WESCHLER: We have dibs on you first. 

FEUCHTWANGER: And then I'm now invited to Sweden. There 
somebody [Dr. Walter Berensohn] also wrote a book about 
my husband, and when this will be published there will be 
a great celebration, and I should be there. But I don't 
know if I can. 

So I never accept anything. I say, "I cannot tell 
you beforehand. Maybe I will be there, maybe not." 



Sketch of Leonard Wibberley 

During one of those most entertaining, most hospitable 
evenings at Ernst and Lilly Toch's house I met Leonard 
Wibberley. He looked to me like the monks of Bavaria, the 
Capuchins, who, also mostly blond, wear a beard, brown 
vestments, and have always a happy look on their faces. 
With Wibberley it was an inner happiness of a man content 
with his fate; it was not like that of the Capuchins a 
reflection of their brew which is famous over the whole 

Wibberley spoke about his favorite music and his 
study with Toch . I knew him already as a writer who wrote 
The Mouse That Roared and The Russians Are Coming , both 
books ever more famous for being transformed into most 
successful films. His handsome wife sat with him; they 
seemed very close, content with each other. I felt a 
mutual attraction with them. They came to my house and 
saw the library, and then another day he picked me up, 
coming from their home way back in Hermosa Beach, so I 
could spend the evening with them. All that was quite 
unforgettable. A small house amidst other small houses 
but sitting in the green surrounded by big countryside 
gardens. Inside it was all wood, warm, a long wooden 


table with benches without backs, very much like in a 
monastery, and sitting around it at least six beautiful, 
healthy, quite naturally well behaved children, almost 
grown up--they were sitting in size, very much like organ 
pipes--the father cutting the bread; wholesome, tasty 
dishes. I rarely felt so happy and peaceful. After 
dinner I was shown several violins made by the host (it 
is his favorite hobby) and received a lesson in the choice 
of wood and in the application of different coats of lac- 
quer; it was like another century, or rather timeless. 
And then both drove me back the long way; it v;as back 
and forth, back and forth four times for them. 

Later we had a correspondence. He inquired about 
certain books he needed for a new novel, and then I 
received his book with a most gracious dedication. The 
book is located at the same times and places as Flavius 
Josephus, and one cannot imagine a greater difference: 
nothing of the conflicts which so heavily burdened the 
man Josephus. There was danger, too, but everything v/as 
looked at ironically sometimes, and sometimes humorously. 
And in reading I had an ever so slight suspicion that 
much of the irony was directed against Josephus, as in 
a friendly conversation between two men who have a very 
different approach to the world as a whole and to the 
world of Josephus but who respect the other's ideas with 


understanding and indulgence. 

I met him again at the memorial of Lilly Toch's life 
and death. We were sitting on the terrace with the view 
to the blue mountains in the background. Franzi spoke 
with a new understanding and admiration for her mother, 
feelings we all shared. Then Wibberley spoke, and we 
were all moved. He spoke of her knowledge, her wit, her 
humorous conversation, and he found proof for this. He 
told of a ride in his car. When he stopped to let her 
out and went around the car to open the door for her, 
she said, "This is quite unusual in these days. Men do 
that only when the woman is young and beautiful, or when 
the man has a new car." And she was right in our midst 

This is Wibberley the man, the writer, the human 

Marta Feuchtwanger 

Pacific Palisades, California 
November, 1975 



Register of Interview Preparation Materials 

[Papers on file with UCLA Special Collections, 

accompanying the oral history of 

Marta Feuchtwanger (Collection 100/155).] 


A. By Marta Feuchtwanger: in preparation for the 

B. Occasional writings by Marta Feuchtwanger 

C. Comments by others about Marta Feuchtwanger 


A. Speeches and writings by Lion Feuchtwanger 

B. Materials about Lion Feuchtwanger 






A. By Marta Feuchtwanger : in preparation for the 

1. Early memories; the honeymoon; Italy (6/16/75) 

2. The honeymoon; Italy and Tunisia; V7orld War I 

(7/1/75) . 

3. The honeymoon; World War I (7/2/75). 

4. Munich during World War I (7/8/75). 

5. Revolution; Rateregierung ; Berlin; Exile; 

Lion's American tour (undated). 

6. Lion's appendicitis in Berlin (2/23/76). 

7. Sanary; the camps (8/14/75). 

8. Munich; New York; Los Angeles (8/21/75). 

9. Munich; New York (undated). 

10. Thomas Mann in Los Angeles; Dresden (8/28/75). 

11. Soviet publication of Feuchtwanger (undated). 

12. Neighbors in Pacific Palisades; Russian VJar 

Relief (9/25/75) . 

13. An acquaintance's abortion (undated). 

14. "When I was left alone...." After Lion's 

death; animals (9/22/75) . 

15. Animals look at you: the falcon (undated). 

16. Animals look at you: the skunk (undated). 

17. Los Angeles friends (undated). 

18. Encounters with myself (1/78): final 

anecdotes . 



B. Occasional writings by Marta Feuchtwanger 

1. "Why I Am a Jew," speech for Amity Circle 

(4/19/71) . 

2. "Notes for a Speech" (the escape out of France) 

(undated) . 

3. "Other Notes for a Speech" (the escape out of 

France) (undated) . 

4 . Letter to Lothar Kahn (concerning trip to 

Soviet Union) (8/3/71) . 

5. "I Was a Paid Model" (concerning Jane Ullman's 

sculpture and the Watts Tower) (undated) . 

[concerning specific individuals] 

6. "Wilhelm Dieterle" (Aufbau, 1/12/73) (in German) 

7. "Zum Fall [Wilhelm] Furtwangler" (Aufbau, 

6/25/71) (in German). 

8. "So sah ich Heinrich Mann" (Neue Deutsche 

Literatur, Marz 1971) (in German). Also 
a letter from Lothar Kahn concerning 
the article. 

9. "Notes for a colloquium at USC on the 100th 

birthday of Thomas Mann" (5/8/75) . 

10. "Notes for a talk on Max Reinhardt for the 

Vienna Culture Club [Los Angeles] on 
his 100th birthday" (12/11/73) (in 
English and German) . 

11. "On Ernst Toch" (The Composer and Conductor , 

November 1964) 

12. "Helene Weigel zum 70. Geburstag" (Henschel 

Verlag, 1970) (in German) . 



C. Comments of others about Marta Feuchtwanger 

1. "Marta Feuchtwanger: A Profile" by Ralph 

Friedman, The Chicago Jewish Forum , 
Summer 1963. 

2. "Reception at Castle Gerhaus" (caption to a 

photograph in a German newspaper, 1969) , 

3. "Kein Experiment 'Goya' und kein Wettlauf" 

(Walter Janka on Mrs. Feuchtwanger " s 
participation in developing the movie 
Goya ) in Arbeitshef te #7 (Deutsche 
Akademie der Kunste zu Berlin) (in 
German) . 

4. "Speech delivered by German Consul General 

Wilhelm Fabricius at the party in honor 
of Mrs. Feuchtwanger ' s 8 5th birthday" 
(1/21/76) . 

5. Letter to Mrs. Feuchtwanger from conductor 

William Steinberg (2/6/76) . 



A. Speeches and writings by Lion Feuchtwanger 
(chronological order) 

1. Two excerpts from Feuchtwanger 's Tagebuch 

(1909, 1916) . 

2. Letter to Marta Feuchtwanger from New York 

(1/27/33) (in German and English) . 

3. "The German Jews: 1933," speech delivered 

in London, December 1933 (German and 
English) . 

4. Speech at the Palestinian Pavilion, New York 

World's Fair, 1940 (German and English). 

5. "Charity and Gratitude," speech for the 

Cardiac Association, New York, 1940. 

6. Speech for the League of Writers in New York 

(11/17/40) . 

7. "Spanish Loyalists in French Concentration 

Camps" (1941) (German and English) . 

8. "The Reasons I Write Historical Novels" 

(for KNPC, 12/17/41) . 

9. "Appeal to the Germans" (signed by Brecht, 

H. Mann, and Feuchtwanger; 12/9/42) . 

10. "We Shall Never Die," Hollywood Bowl speech 

(7/21/43) . 

11. "The Working Problems of the Writer in Exile," 

from Writers' Congress , October 194 3, 
University of California Press. 

12. "On the Character of the Germans and the 

Nazis," from Writers ' Congress , October 
1943, University of California Press. 

13. "The Nuremberg Trials: An End and a Beginning" 

(article for De Groene, 12/8/45) (including 
a passage from Brecht 's Work Journal , 
10/10/45) . 


14. "For the Unitarian Service Committee" 

(H . Mann and Feuchtwanger, 4/21/46). 

15. Radio interview excerpts (on writing) 

(1/25/48) . 

16. "For the Unitarian Service Committee" 

(9/22/50) . 

17. "Einstein: A Personal Appreciation" (article 

for New Outlook , June 1955) (German and 
English) . 

18. Excerpts from the official transcript of 

Lion Feuchtwanger ' s last citizenship 
hearing (11/20/58) . 

19. "Bullfight" (short story from Stories Far 

and Near) . 


B. Materials about Lion Feuchtwanger 

1. Chronology of works, prepared by Mrs. 

Feuchtwanger . 

2. Chronology of plays and their premieres, 

prepared by Mrs. Feuchtwanger. 

3. List of honors, prepared by Mrs. Feuchtwanger. 

4. Excerpt from The Feuchtwanger Family by L.F. 

Toby, concerning Lion's ancestors. 

[comments by others about his life] 

5. Gustave 0. Arlt, "The Cultural Contribution 

Exiled Intellectuals to America and the 
World," from Writers' Congress , October 
1943, University of California Press. 

6. Bertolt Brecht, excerpts from the Work 

Journal , selected and translated by 
Mrs. Feuchtwanger (1938-45). 

7. Varian Fry, from Surrender on Demand (Random 

House, 1945) concerning the Feuchtwangers 
escape from France. 

8. Joseph Lash, from Eleanor and Franklin (Norton, 

1971) concerning the Roosevelts' work on 
behalf of Feuchtwanger. 

9. Julien Luchaire, from Confession d 'un Francais 

Moyen (Leo Olschki, Florence) concerning 
the Feuchtwangers in Sanary (in French) . 

10. Friedrich Torberg, from Parodien und Post 

Scripts (Fischer, 1969) , "Lion 
Feuchtwanger: Ubermorgen" (in German) 

11. Weiss Ferdl, from Weiss Ferdl er zahlt sein 

Leben (Richard Pflaum, Munich) concerning 
his conversation with Hitler about the 
heroism of Berthold Feuchtwanger (in 
German) . 


11a. Arnold Zweig, "Meine Nachbarne" (1936) 
(in German) . 

[concerning the Feuchtwanger Library] 

12. Miscellany: 

a) Invitation to an October 1974 luncheon 

"Lion Feuchtwanger: Zu Ehren . " 

b) Brochure on Lion Feuchtwanger Fellowship. 

c) Sample bookplate. 

13. Coranto (Journal of the Friends of the USC 

Libraries) Spring 1964, a note on recent 
visitors to the Feuchtwanger Library. 

14. Coranto , Fall 1964, "Lion Feuchtwanger: The 

Writer and the Library" by Harold von 

[concerning the Lothar Kahn Biography] 

15. Announcement of publication of Lothar Kahn ' s 

Insight and Action: The Life and Work 

of Lion Feuchtwanger , Dickinson University 

I^ess, l3'/b. 

16. Review of Insight and Action by Robert Kirsch, 

Los Angeles Times (3/18/76) 



1. Marta as a child, approximately 5 years old, 

circa 1896. 

2. Marta during World War I in Munich, circa 1917. 

Reclining on couch. The gown she wears is 
fashioned from a bed sheet. Posed. 

3. Marta in Munich just after the war, circa 1918-19. 

Wearing dark stole. Veiled. Posed. 

4. Marta in Munich just after the war, circa 1918-19. 

Wearing dark gown. Sad countenance. Posed. 

5. Marta in Berlin, 1926. Photograph for British 

journal. Hat and earrings. Used as frontis- 
piece for Voliome II. 

6. Marta in Berlin, circa 1930. Performing a 


7. An honorary banquet for Heinrich Mann, Berlin, 

circa 1930. Guests include H. Mann, Marta, 
Lion, French consul Luchaire. 

8. Marta in Sanary, circa 1935. Outdoors, in casual 

wear, with cats. 

9. Bust of Marta by Adolf Seifert, Sanary, circa 1938 

10. Lion and Brecht in Pacific Palisades, 1947. 

Photograph by Ruth Berlau taken on Brecht ' s 
last day in California. 

11. Lion, California portrait by Florence Homolka. 

12. Marta and Lion in Pacific Palisades, circa 1958. 

At Lion's desk, reviewing manuscript. Marta 
in Chinese gown. 

13. Lion in Pacific Palisades, 1959. Last photograph 

of Lion. 

14. Marta on a visit to Germany, 1969. 

15. Marta, circa 1970. 


16. Marta, circa 1975. By the fireplace, reviewing 

a book on Lion. In color. 

17. Marta holding up a rattlesnake she has just 


18. Marta in Franken, Germany, examining plaque 

on the history of the town of Feuchtwangen . 

19. Plaque reviewing the history of the town of 


20. Marta during oral history interviewing session, 

August 13, 1975. 

21. Proof sheet of photographs taken during inter- 

view, August 13, 1975. 



On June 3, 1975, as part of his series of 
interviews with friends of Ernst and Lilly Toch, 
Lawrence Weschler interviewed Marta Feuchtwanger 
on her relations with the couple. Out of that 
interview, the current oral history eventually 
emerged. The transcript of that interview (4 
pages) has been edited but not processed; it may 
eventually be included in a volume of interviews 
with Toch's friends. In the meantime, the 
transcript is included in this file. 



A. Hartung, Hugo, editor. 

Lion Feuchtwanger , 1884-1958 

Akademie der Kunste, 1969. Catalog. 
Illustrated. In German. 

B. Leupold, Hans 

Lion Feuchtwanger 

Veb Bibliographisces Institut, Leipzig, 1967. 
Illustrated. In German. 

C. Spalek, John, editor. 

Lion Feuchtwanger : The Man , His Ideas , His Work 
University of Southern California, Studies 
in Comparative Literature . 

Hennessey & Ingalls, Inc., Los Angeles, 1972. 
Eighteen essays; list of titles; chronology; 
bibliography . 




Abdul El Kader 

Abel, Walter 

Abetz, Alexander 

Abetz, Otto 

Abruzzi, Mount, Italy 

Adelt, Leonhardt 

Adelt, Frau Leonhardt 
Adenauer, Konrad 
Adler, Cyrus 
Adler, Friedrich 

Adler, Mr. 

Adorno, Theodor (Wiesengrund) 
Adorno, Mrs. Theodor 

The Persians 
Agee, James 
Aisner, Lilo Dammert 
Aitov, Ibrahim 
Alba, Duchess of 
Alba, Duke of 
Albertina museum, Graphische 

Sammlung, Vienna 
Albert-Lasard, Lou 
Alexander VI (pope) 
Alfonso XIII (king of Spain) 
Alhambra, Granada, Spain 
Allegro Ball, Los Angeles 
Allert de Lange (publishers) 
All the King's Men (film) 
Alpine Montan Bank 
Amalfi, Italy 
American Civil Liberties 

Union (ACLU) 
American Federation of Labor 
American Film Institute 

Amman, Herr 

Anzengruber, Ludwig 
Apfelbock, Jacob 
Arbeitshef te (periodical) 


410, 483, 
830, 1362 

328, 917-918 

345, 1068-1070 
172, 228, 

















316-318, 882 



1612, 1718 

738, 901 



649-650, 836 




388, 389, 






Ar co-Valley, Anton von 
Arens, Hanns 

Unsterbliches Munchen 
( Immortal Munich ) 

The Acharnians 

Arlen, Walter 
Arlt, Gustave 

Arlt, Mrs. Gustave 
Arnold, Aerol 
Arnold, Anna Bing 

Asch, Sholem 

Aschenbach, Herr 

Ashton, E.B. 
Askin, Leon 
Associated Press 
Ataturk, Kemal 
Auden, W.H. 
Auer, Erhard 
Aufbau (newspaper) 
Aufbau Verlag 
Augsburg, Germany 

Augspurg, Anita 

Aurora Press 

Auschwitz concentration camp 


366, 369, 415 


1263a, 1729, 

332-333, 508, 720, 


















1251, 1526 


533, 1247-1248 


4, 386, 419, 431, 

838-839, 1383 



986, 1004, 1246- 



Babel, Isaac 

Bacharach, Sedonie Reitlinger 

Bacon, Francis 

Baden, Germany 

Baedeker (travel guide) 

Bahr, Hermann 

Balasz, Bela 

Balfour, Arthur James 

Ball, Richard 

Bandol, France (La Reserve) 

Banionis, Donatus 
Bank of England 

4, 5, 27-28 


962, 963-964 








1023, 1026-1027 

849-851, 862-870, 

873, 881-883, 896, 





Barnowsky, Victor 
Barry, Joan 
Bartok, Bela 
Basilius, Harold 

Bassermann, Albert 
Bassermann- Jordan, Ernst von 
Batory, S.S. 

Baum, Vicki 

see Munich 
Beaumarchais , Caron de 

Becher, Johannes R. 

Beethoven, Ludwig van 
Beglarian, Grant 
Bel-Air, California, fire 
Belmonte, Juan 
Benartz Gallery 
Benda, Vilem 
Benes, Eduard 
Bennett, Arnold 
Bentley, Elizabeth 
Bentley, Eric 
Berensohn, Walter 
Bergman, Ingmar 
Bergman, Ingrid 
Bergner, Elisabeth 
Beria, Lavrenti 
Berlau, Ruth 

Berlin, Germany 







-1305, 1561- 






810-813, 816- 




, 1355, 1357, 


-1484, 1491 

417-418, 799-800, 


955, 957 







-1510, 1591 




, 1688-1689 















, 1176, 1190- 


, 1427 


444, 445, 458, 


563, 564-568a, 


581, 586-593, 


624, 639-641k, 


687, 693-695, 


706, 707-715, 


777, 797-834, 


854, 912-915, 


918, 924, 1344- 


, 1365-1367, 


, 1555, 1631, 


-1670, 1678- 


, 1696-1697, 



Berlin, Germany [cont'd] 
Akademie der Kunste 
Feuchtwanger Archive 

Bor sen - Courier (newspaper) 
Die Komodie Theater 
Herrenhaus Academy 
Illustraterte Zeitung 
Kronprinzen Palais 
Schloss Gerhuis 
State Theater and Opera 

Berliner Ensemble, East Berlin 
Berliner Tageblatt (newspaper) 

Bermann-Fischer , Gottfried 
Bern, Switzerland 
Bernard, Tristan 
Bernays, Walter 
Berndt, Wolfgang 
Bernhard, Georg 
Bernini, Giovanni 
Bernstein, Leonard 
Berrigan, Daniel 

Trial of the Catonsville Nine 

Best, Herr 

Betz, Albert 

Bialik, Chaim Nachman 

Biarritz, France 

Biberman, Herbert 

Bibliothek der verbrannten 

Blicher, Paris 
Biddle, Francis 
Biddle, George 
Binder, Sybille 
Bing, Anna 

see Arnold, Anna Bing 
Bing, Henri 
Bingham, Hiram, Jr. 

1363, 1365, 




693, 912 

674, 763 


1662, 1705 


423, 441, 460, 564- 

567, 570, 588, 799 


418, 801, 955 

410, 458, 483, 485, 

499, 505, 778, 843 

902, 1520 

840, 846, 848 




843, 901, 913-914 







598, 600-601, 606, 


1393, 1394 

38-39, 185, 1181, 

1486-1488, 1497, 

1551, 1738 


441, 587 

Bismarck, Otto von 
Bizet, Georges 






7, 279, 


1017, 1021, 
1029, 1239- 

287, 341 


Bizet, Georges [cont'd] 

Blake, William 
Blei, Franz 

Die Puderquaste 
Bloch, Ernst 

"Goya in Wall Street" 
Blue Angel , The (film) 
Bodenheimer, Johanna 

see Feuchtwanger , Johanna 

Bodenheimer family 
Bodensee (Lake of Constance) 
Bohemia, Czechoslovakia 
Bohn, Frank 
Bonsels, Waldemar 
Book of the Month Club 
Books Abroad (periodical) 
Borgia, Lucrezia 

Boroff, Mr. 

Bowron, Fletcher 

Boy, Eva Homme 1 (von Hoboken) 

Boyer, Charles 

Bradbury, Ray 

Fahreinheit 451 


the Chicago Aby 





Wonderful Ice i 




, Tom 




Miracle of Our 



Fatima (film) 

Brahm, i 



Hilda Rollman 





Braude, Marvin 
Braun, Erwin 
Braun, Walter 
Brecht, Barbara 
Brecht, Berthold 

Brecht, Bertolt 


35, 610 




1065, 1066-1067 


444, 767, 804, 806 




1018, 1020 


982, 1324, 1461 

1301, 1561 


1445, 1446 


835-837, 1293, 1418 

1295, 1357, 1463 

1722, 1723-1724 






598, 1459-1460 

598, 1460 



686, 1365, 1656, 

1658, 1660, 1662, 


1609, 1611-1612 




431-432, 436, 838- 


4, 44-45, 

312, 334, 

386, 390, 

412, 418, 


108, 305, 
396, 397, 


Brecht, Bertolt [cont'd] 

"Apfelbock, oder die Lilie 

auf dem Felde" 
Arbeits Journal 


The Caucasian Chalk Circle 
Drums in the Night ( Spartacus ) 
( Trommeln in der Nacht) 

Edward II (w. Feuchtwanger) 


Hangmen Also Die (film w. Lang) 

Happy End 









































73, 6 












56, 4 
89, 4 
93, 5 
77, 6 
47, 7 
07, 9 
56, 9 


, 122 
, 124 
, 127 
, 128 
, 129 
, 138 

, 151 
, 152 
, 155 
, 170 












1170, 1174, 1421, 

1422-1424, 1514 




422, 432 

458, 668 





438, 444, 


564-567, 568a, 
1169, 1242, 1244 

445, 1179-1186, 1425 
1169-1170, 1194- 
1195, 1385 
590, 672-673 


Brecht, Bertolt [cont'd] 
Kalkutta, 4^ Mai 

(w. Feuchtwanger) 
Kuhle Wampe 

The Mahagonny Songplay 
The Measure Taken 

( Die Massnahme ) 
The Mother 
Mother Courage 

Simone ( Die Gesichte der 

Simone Machard) 

(w. Feuchtwanger) 

see Drums in the Night 
"Surabaya Jhonny" 
Threepenny Opera 

(Die Dreigroschenoper) 

Das Verhor des Lukullus . 

The Wedding 
Brecht, Helene Weigel 

see Weigel, Helene 
Brecht, Hiob (Hanne) 
Brecht, Marianne Zoff 

see Lingen, Marianne Zoff Brecht 
Brecht, Stefan 
Brecht, Walther 

Brecht, Ms. 

Brentwood Market, Los Angeles 
Bridge on the River Kwai , The 

British Museum 
Brodie, Bernard 
Brodie, Fawn 

Jefferson , An Intimate History 

No Man Knows My Story 
Brokaw, Lucille 
Bronnen, Arnolt 

Gibt zu protokoll 

Ostpolzug ( March Against Poland ) 

Die Septembe move lie 


440-442, 581, 587, 

588-593, 1059 

446, 447, 673 


673, 1186, 1187, 

1191, 1276 

670-672, 673 

44, 435, 445, 486- 

487, 574, 1428 

440, 1167-1168, 

1171-1178, 1191, 



334, 433, 444, 445, 

568-568a, 587, 590, 

667-670, 673, 747, 

1059, 1164, 1183, 

1227, 1298, 1455 



435, 574 

666, 1198, 1407 




1323, 1358 









800, 802 


758, 799, 



Bronnen, Arnolt [cont'd] 

Vatermord ( Assassination of 
the Father ) 

Brook , Rudy 

Brown, Curtis 

Brown, Sonja 

Browne, Lewis 

Biichner, Georg 

Danton' s Death 

Budapest Quartet 

Budislawski, Erna 

Buffon, Georges 

Histoire Naturelle 

Bulow, Bernhard von 

Bure, Emile 

Biirgerbrau Keller, Munich 

Burschell, Friedrich 

"Butterflies Don't Live Here: 
Children's Drawings and Poems 
from Terezin Concentration 
Camp" (exhibit) 

424, 598, 753 








369-370, 377-37! 



of Dr. 

The (film) 

____^^_ Caligari , 

Cafe Luitpoid, Munich 

Cafe Maximilian, Munich 

Cafe Stephanie, Munich 

Caillaux, Joseph 

Caillaux, Mme. Joseph 

Cain, James 

California Chamber Symphony Society 

Calmette, Gaston 

Camarillo State Hospital 

Cappuccini Convento hotel, Amalfi 

Capri, Italy 

Blue Grotto 
Carlyle, Thomas 
Caron, Leslie 
Carthage, Tunisia 
Casablanca (film) 
Caspari, Georg 
Caspari, Gallery, Munich 
Cassirer, Paul 
Castel Gandolfo, Italy 
Castelluccio, Italy 
Castelnuevo-Tedesco, Mario 
Cattaro, Yugoslavia 

379, 420 













192-198, 242 

193, 242-243 

285, 323 




538, 750 


538, 667 










Cava d'Ispica, Sicily 

Cefalu, Sicily 

Central Connecticut State College 

Centrum party, Germany 

Cerbere, France 

Chamberlain, Neville 
Chandler, Norman 
Chaplin, Charlie 

The Great Dictator 
Modern Times 
Monsieur Verdoux 
Chaplin, Oona 

Chekhov, Anton 

The Cherry Garden 
Chevalier, Maurice 
Chicago Jewish Forum 
Children ' s Drawings and Poems , 

Terezin 1942-1944 
Chretien de Troyes 
Churchill, Winston 


Circle Theatre, Los Angeles 
Clurman, Harold 
Coburg-Gotha, Prince of 
Coe, Minna 

Coe, Willard 

Cohn, Harry 
Cohn, Roy 

Collier' s (periodical) 
Colonna, Vittoria 
Colonna, Ischia, Italy 
Columbia University 
Comedie Francaise, Paris 
Communist party, France 


225-226, 227 


384-385, 774 









794-795, 1021, 


































594-595, 1299 




786-787, 789-790, 














, 1715- 






, 1713, 






939, 1147 







876-877, 928 


Communist party, Germany 

Communist party, Spain 
Communist party, U.S.A. 

Conn, Andy 

Conn, Janin 

Conn, Myrna 

Conrad, Michael Georg 

Convent of the Good Shepherd, 

Coomb, Walter 
Cooper, Duff 
Coranto (periodical) 
Cornell, Katharine 
Coronet Theatre, Los Angeles 
Corwin, Norman 

"The World of Carl Sandburg" 
Cot, Pierre 
Coudenhove-Kalerge, Richard 

Crailsheim, von 

Crane, Stephen 

The Red Badge of Courage 
Cremieux, Benjamin 

Cumberland, Lord 
Curie, Marie 
Curtiz, Michael 
Czinner, Paul 

359-360, 385- 

463, 769, 771, 

777, 1076, 1433- 

, 1386, 1396- 











303-304, 325 









1125-1126, 1130 

114, 415-416 


779, 1563 


630, 634-638 






Dachau concentration camp 
Daladier, Edouard 

Damen, Count 

D'Annunzio, Gabriel 

La Divina Commedia 
Danton, Georges Jacques 
Darwin, Charles 

The Descent of Man 

The Expression of the Emotions 
in Man and Animals 
Darwin, Erasmus 

The Botanic Garden 
Dauphin, Claude 
Davidson, Gordon 


1072, 1081 








Davies, Clyde Brion 

Davies, Joseph Edward 

Mission to Moscow 
Davis, Bette 
Dawson, Ernest 
Dawson's Bookshop 

"Day of the Book, The" (symposium) 
DeBour, Robert 
De Gaulle, Charles 
Delphin Verlag 

Democratic Association, Los Angeles 
Depeche Tunisienne , La (newspaper) 
Despiau, Charles 
Dessau, Paul 
Deutch, Ernst 
Deutsch, Helen 
Deutsch, Mira 

Diamand, Edward 

Diamand, Franziska Feuchtwanger 

Dielmann, Leonie 
Dieterle, Charlotte 
Dieterle, William 

Dr. Ehrlich' s Magic Bullet 
Hunchback of Notre Dame 
Madame Curie 
Dietrich, Marlene 

Dietz, Karl 
Dillmann, Alexander 
Doblin, Alfred 

Berlin Alexanderplatz 

Burger und Soldaten 

Die drei Sprunge des Wang-lun 
Doblin, Frau Alfred 
Dodd, Marta 
Dodd, William E. 
Doe, Andrew 
Dollfuss, Engelbert 
Do ran. Matt 
Dostoevski, Fyodor 
Douglas, Stephen 

780, 1564-1565 

959, 960, 1328- 

1329, 1601 

959, 960, 1601 














360, 361-362, 364- 

366, 522 


68, 72, 120, 121- 

122, 568a-569 


1021, 1216, 1216a 

808, 1020-1021, 

1197, 1216, 1319- 

1320, 1397-1398, 









1191, 1230, 1231- 

1235, 1368 












767, 804, 



Drau, Yugoslavia 
Drei Masken Verlag 

Dreiser, Theodor 

Dresden, Germany 

Dresdner Bank 

Dreyfus, Alfred 

Dubcek, Alexander 

Dubrovnik (Ragusa) , Yugoslavia 

Dukes, Ashley 

Duncker and Humblot (publishers) 

Durant, Will 

Duranty, Walter 

Durieux, Tilla 

Durrell, Lawrence 
Duse, Eleonora 


491-494, 631, 856- 

859, 1519 






559-560, 697-698 

855-856, 860 

71, 869 

1395, 1601 

959, 960, 1601 



209, 1196 

Eberhart, Norma 

Ebert, Carl 

Ebert, Friedrich 

Ebert, Peter 

Ebinger, Blandine 

Edelman, Edmund 

Edward VII (king of England) 

Edward VIII (king of England) 

Ehrlich, Paul 

Eibenschiitz, Camilla 

Einstein, Albert 

Eisenhower, Dwight 
Eisenstein, Sergei 

Ivan the Terrible 

Eisler, Gerhardt 
Eisler, Mrs. Gerhardt 
Eisler, Hanns 




373, 384-385 








841, 968, 



731-735, 963, 966, 

1079, 1697-1698 


731, 734-735 

1408-1412, 1414 


587, 766, 1144, 

1177, 1180, 1182, 

1185, 1187, 


1227, 1231, 


1281, 1283, 




1525, 1531, 

1565, 1632-1633, 


Eisler, Lou 

see Fischer, Lou Eisler 
Eisler, Steffy 
Eisner, Kurt 

1280-1281, 1422 
105, 344, 346-347, 

Elchinger, Richard 

Elf Scharfrichter, Die (cabaret) , 

Ellsberg, Daniel 
Emma Lazarus Society, Venice, 

Encyclopaedia Britannica 
Endore, Guy 

King of Paris 
Endore, Henrietta 
Engel, Erich 

Enterprise Film Company 

Erasmus Antiquariat en 

Boekhandel, Holland 
Erikson, Erik 
Ernst, Max 
Erzberger, Matthias 
Escherich, Georg 
Esterhazy, Marie Charles 
Estoril, Portugal 
Etna, Mount 

Eulenburg, Philipp Fiirst zu 
European Film Fund 

Excalibur, S.S. 
Exeter, S.S. 


388, 411- 
416, 446, 
465, 543, 


363, 366, 


413, 415, 

462, 464, 

687, 748, 

310, 349 

429-430, 805, 119- 








396, 433, 568-568a, 

669, 1059 

1295-1296, 1358, 





384-385, 446, 465 




214-217, 230 



1021, 1200, 1216a, 




Fackel , Die (periodical) 
Fairbanks, Douglas 

Fairleigh Dickinson University Press 
Falckenberg, Otto 


see Balasz, Bela 




400, 401, 407, 




Fascist party, Italy 
Faulkner, William 
Light in August 




Feffer, Izak 

Fehling, Jiirgen 

Ferdinand I (king of Rumania) 

Ferdinando (prince of Pallagonia) 

Feuchtwang, Nathan 

see Reitlinger, Nathan 
Feuchtwangen, Germany 
Feuchtwanger, August 
Feuchtwanger, Bella 

Feuchtwanger, Bertold (Bubi) 

Feuchtwanger, Edgar 
Feuchtwanger, Elkan 
Feuchtwanger, Felix 
Feuchtwanger, Franziska 

see Diamand, Franziska Feuchtwanger 
Feuchtwanger, Fritz 

Feuchtwanger, Frau Fritz 
Feuchtwanger, Henny 

see Ohad, Henny Feuchtwanger 
Feuchtwanger, Igo 
Feuchtwanger, Johanna Bodenheimer 

Feuchtwanger, Louis 
Feuchtwanger, Ludwig (Lutschi) 

Feuchtwanger, Marianna 

Feuchtwanger, Martin 

Feuchtwanger, Markus 

Feuchtwanger, Medi (Marta) 

646-648, 698 




577-578, 580, 621- 






1, 1366-1367, 1541 











•73, 480-481, 
:, 1247, 1249 
■75, 79, 277, 
, 353, 381-382, 
I, 722-723, 871- 


71, 121, 124, 277, 
472, 478-478a, 479, 
869, 871, 939, 1245 
479, 871 

88, 93 

6, 38, 62, 66-68, 

74, 79-80, 81-82, 

83, 85, 120, 122, 

151-152, 155, 185- 

186, 276, 337, 353, 


66, 282-283 

70-71, 75, 92, 94, 

111, 122, 277, 417- 

418, 448, 524, 575, 

718-719, 869, 870, 

894, 939, 1245 


71, 276-277, 481, 

762, 872 


73, 75-76, 84 


Feuchtwanger , Sigmund 

Feuchtwanger , Sophie 
Feuchtwanger, Trude 
Feuchtwanger Bank, Munich 
Feuchtwanger Memorial Library- 
see University of Southern 
Feust, Pauline 
Fischer, Ernst 

Prince Eugen 
Fischer, Lou Eisler 

Fischer, Samuel 
Fischer, S., Verlag 

Flamme , Die (film) 
Fleisser, Marieluise 

Fegefeuer (Purgatory) 

Materialien zum Leben und 
Schreiben der Marieluise 
Fleisser (Gunther Ruehle, ed.) 

Pioniere in Ingolstadt 
Florence, Italy 

Hall of Lancius 
Fonda, Jane 
Foreign Legion 
Foss, Lukas 
Foster, Rudolf 
Fraenkel family 

Free French Movement 
France, Anatole 
Francis Ferdinand (archduke of 

Franco, Francisco 

Frank, Bruno 

6, 38, 63, 65, 66- 
68, 76, 78-80, 81, 
83, 85, 86, 89, 96, 
118, 119, 122, 151- 
153, 155, 185-186, 
276, 353, 478a, 715 

75, 723, 871-872 


1280-1281, 1421- 



1218, 1280-1281, 

1404-1406, 1407, 

1408, 1410, 1417- 

1418, 1421-1422 

492-493, 662 

492-493, 662, 1519, 



449-453, 455, 461 





167-168, 181 

181-182, 508 







627, 1210 

608, 648, 898, 928, 
933-934, 1029, 1077, 
1086, 1323 
297, 343, 361, 364- 
366, 477, 481-482, 
483-484, 486, 487- 
488, 489-491, 575, 


Frank, Bruno [cont'd] 



Die treue Magd 

Das Weib auf dem Tiere 
( The Woman on the Beast ) 
Frank, Ellen 
Frank, Leonhard 

Die Ochsenfurter 
Die Rauberbande 
Frank, Liesel (Lisl) 

Frank, Ludwig 
Frankfurt Institut fiir 

Frankfurter Zeitung (newspaper) 

Franklin, Benjamin 

Quartetto a 3^ Violini 
con Violoncello 
Franz Joseph (emperor) 
Frederick II (king of Prussia) 
Frederick III (king of Prussia) 
Freud, Sigmund 
Freund, Carl 
Friedenthal, Joachim 

Friedman, Dr. 

Friedman, Ralph 
Friedman, Sonja Wolf 
Fries, Lisa 
Frischauer, Mr. 

Fritschman, Stephen 
Froeschel, George 
Fromme, Lynette (Squeaky) 
Fry, Varian 

687-688, 692, 719, 
803, 849, 922-923, 
925, 968, 971-972, 
981, 1122-1123, 
1134, 1207, 1216, 
1319-1320, 1332- 
1333, 1344, 1345, 
1431a, 1524, 1739 
491, 1320 
477, 489 

1216, 1230, 



489, 575, 849, 922, 

925, 1021, 1134, 

1216, 1216a, 1528 

142, 279-281 


160, 234, 484-485, 
547, 913, 1649 
978, 1354-1355, 
1357, 1482, 1491, 
1493-1495, 1544, 




581-582, 680-682 











1020, 1021-1022, 

1035-1036, 1092- 



Fry, Varian [cont'd] 

Surrender on Demand 

Fry brothers 
Fuchs, Jockels 
Furtwangler, Wilhelm 
Futterer, Joseph 

"Portrait of Lion Feuchtwanger" 
(or, "Portrait of Richard 
Elchinger" ) 

1022, 1036, 1092- 







Gabelsberger Stenographie 

Galsworthy, John 

Gangi, Sicily 

Garbo, Greta 

Gardner, Ava 

Garibaldi Brigade, Spanish 
Civil War 

Gaunont -British film company 

Gay, John 

The Beggar ' s Opera 

George V (king of England) 

George, Manfred 

Gerasimov, Sergey 


Koenig Regiment 
Maximilian Ritterorder 
Reischwehr (White Guard) 

Weimar Republic 
Getty, J. Paul 
Getty, J. Paul, Museum 
Giehse, Theresa 
Gigi (film) 
Gilbert, Pia 

Gilliat, Sidney 
Gimpel, Bronislaw 
Gimpel, Jakob 

Gimpel, Mimi 
Ginsbourg[?] , Mr. 
Girgenti, Sicily 
Gliick, Nelson 

1304, 1560-1561 

619-620, 621, 623 


1188, 1293-1294 






372, 386-387 

288, 290-291 




395, 414 









863-865, 868 

645, 1583 

645, 1583, 

1641, 1708, 





391, 394, 

1587, 1720- 



Goddard, Paulette 
Goebbels, Joseph 

Goethe, Johann Wolfgang von 

Complete Works, "last- hand 
edition" ("Ausgabe Letzter 
Pes Epimenides Erwachen 
Dichtung und Wahrheit 

The Italian Journey ( Die 
italienische Reise) 

Goetz, Mr. 

Gogh, Vincent van 

Golabek, Mona 

Golden Star For Friendship 

Between People (East Germany) 
Goldberg, Albert 

Goldwater, Sigismund 
Goldwyn, Samuel 

Gomperz, Mr. 

Good Earth , The (film) 
Gorelik, Mordecai 
Goring, Hermann 
Gorky, Maxim 

The Lower Depths 
Gorky, Mrs. Maxim 
Goslar, Lotte 
Gottlieb, Ernst 
Gottschalk, Alfred 
Goya, Francisco 


Desastres de la guerra 

Maja Desnuda 
Goya (East German/Russian film) 

759, 1227, 1342, 

1344, 1345 

508, 515, 517, 552, 

553, 733, 754, 972, 


33, 131-132, 192, 

232-234, 242-243, 

285, 356, 394, 412, 

749, 751, 1212, 

1306, 1475-1476, 

1478, 1485-1486 

1475-1476, 1485- 


356, 412 


33, 1121-1122, 1485 

233-234, 242-243 


877, 879 



161, 1152, 1638, 



1167-1168, 1178, 

1196, 1329, 1330, 






342, 673, 

972, 974 
306, 339, 
962, 963 






596, 602, 








1544, 1696 
602, 1544 

1079, 1325, 


Goya (East German/Russian film) 

1341, 1668, 1678- 
1683, 1694, 1695, 

Vom Roman zum Film 

Goya : 

Graetz, Paul 
Graf, Oskar Maria 

Wir sind Gefangene 
( We Were Prisoners ) 
Graf, Mrs. Oskar Maria 

Graf, Mr. 

Graham, Sonia (Lady Melchett) 
Granach, Alexander 
Granada, Spain 
Grass, Gunter 

The Tin Drum 
Graudan, Joanna 
Graudan, Nikolai 
Grauman's Chinese Theatre, 

Grieg, Edvard 
Grillparzer, Fritz 
Groene , De (newspaper) 
Gropius, Alma 

see Mahler-Werfel, Alma 
Gropius, Ise Frank 
Gropius, Manon 
Gropius, Walter 

Grossman, Stefan 
Griiber, Heinrich 
Guggenheim, Felix 

Guggenheim, Peggy 

Gulath, Alice von 

Gulbransson, Olaf 

Gumbel, Emil 

Gumppenberg, Hanns von 

Gurs, France, internment camp 

Gustlin, Clarence 
Gutenberg Bible 
Gutenberg Museum, Mainz 
Gysi, Klaus 








602-603, 605- 

770, 1235 












573, 764, 

818, 948, 



554, 1176, 

1343, 1679 


1671, 1672 


















1008, 1011, 



Haase, Hugo 
Habe, Hans 
Haber, Joyce 
Habermas, Jurgen 
Habimah, The 
Haerschelmann, Rolf von 
Halbe, Max 

Jug end ( Youth ) 
Hamburg, Germany 
Hammamet, Tunisia 
Hammamet, Gulf of, Tunisia 
Handelsbank, Munich 
Hanussen, Erik 
Harden, Maximilian 
Harich, Wolfgang 
Harlan, Veit 
Hasenclever, Walter 

Hastings, Warren 
Hatvany, Wally 
Hauptmann, Elizabeth 

Hauptmann, Gerhart 

Hayden, Tom 

Haydn, Franz Joseph 

Heartfield, John 

Hebrew Union College, Los Angeles 

Hecht, Ben 
Heidegger, Martin 
Heifetz, Milton 
Heilborn, Ernst 
Heine, Heinrich 
Held, Ludwig 
Hemingway, Ernest 
Hempstead, David 
Hendaye, France 
Hendel Trust, Germany 
Henreid, Paul 
Henschke, Alfred 

see Klabund 
Hermann, G.A. 

see Arlt, Mr. & Mrs. Gustav 
Hermitage museum, Leningrad 
Herriot, Edouard 
Herrmann, Mr. 

446, 465 




861, 1445 

306-307, 320, 748 

103, 104, 106 



251-252, 254 




141, 286-287 


552, 554 

835, 1005-1008, 


285, 323 









1587, 1644, 1660 





484-485, 547 

105, 388 




597, 602 



667, 672-673, 


298, 762-763, 

803, 911 

1613, 1648 

765, 837 

1077, 1125 


Herrmann, Eva 

Hertz, Emil 

Hertz, Felizia 
Hertz, Heinrich 
Hertz, Richard 
Herzfelde, Wieland 
Herzog, Wilhelm 
Hess, Rudolph 
Hesse, Hermann 
Hesterberg, Trude 
Heymann, Werner Richard 
Hilton, James 
Hindenburg, Oskar 
Hindenburg, Paul von 
Hiroshima, Japan 
Hirschfeld, Kurt 
Hitler, Adolf 

Me in Kampf 
Hoboken, Anthony van 
Hoboken, Eva van 

see Boy, Eva 
Hodler, Ferdinand 
Hofbraiihaus, Munich 
Hofe, Harold von 

Hoffman, Max von 
Hof fmansthal, Hugo von 
Hoflich, Lucie 
Hohenzollern dynasty 

750, 957, 1057- 

1048, 1112, 1133- 


561, 725-726, 757, 




1284, 1361 


873, 1433-1436 


299-300, 628, 1210 

524, 674 




769, 773 


1349-1351, 1400 

890, 1428 

56, 60, 191, 198, 

281, 302, 333, 395, 

406-407, 464, 467- 

470, 496-501, 503- 

513, 516-517, 520, 

521, 700, 704, 705, 

706, 720-723, 733, 

772-776, 778, 785, 

823, 825, 866-867, 

891-893, 914-915, 

921, 944, 972, 974, 

1022, 1078, 1106- 

1107, 1128, 1163, 

1214, 1225, 1249, 

1253, 1257, 1361, 

1556, 1658, 1737 

503-504, 706, 825 

835, 836-837 




1316, 1501, 

1681, 1725 



586, 808 




Holinshed, Raphael 

Holl, Gussy 
Hollander, Friedrich 
Hollander, Renato von 
Hollywood Bowl 
Hollywood Ten 
Homolka, Florence Meyer 
Homo Ik a, Joan 
Homolka, Oskar 

Hoover, Herbert 
Hopper, Hedda 

Horkheimer, Max 
Home, Marilyn 
Horthy de..Nagybanya 
Horvath, Odon von 

Geschichten aus dem 
Wiener Wald 
Hossinger, Karl 
Houdini, Harry 
Houseman, John 

Huber, Herr 

Huder, Walther 

Huebsch, Ben 

Hugo, Victor 

Les Miserables 

Hull, Cordell 

Hungtington Hartford Foundation 

Huntington, Henry E., Library 

Hurley, John 

Huston, John 

Huttenback, Dorothy 

Huxley, Aldous 

Brave New World 

767, 804 

1269, 1328 

1192, 1197 



Huxley, Maria Nys 


















1709, 1712 




1684, 1691 


1183, 1190, 1298, 



1658, 1661-1662, 


547-548, 631, 679, 

782, 796, 983, 

1045, 1114, 1116 


1103, 1240 



1014, 1240 


1459, 1708-1712 

750, 862, 865, 878, 

881-884, 888-889, 

906, 1055, 1059, 

1094-1096, 1220- 

1221, 1601 


883, 888, 906-907, 

908, 950, 1055, 


Huxley, Maria Nys [cont'd] 
Hyeres, France, internment camp 

1057, 1059, 1220, 


983-985, 989, 1019- 

1020, 1084-1088 

(w. Petrov) 

Ibsen, Henrik 

Ilf, Ilya 

The Twelve Chairs 
Independent Socialist party, Germany 
Innocent III (pope) 
Irber, Mary 

Isaacs, Rufus Daniel (Lord Reading) 
Ischia, Italy 
Isherwood, Christopher 

Berlin Stories 
Ivar Theatre, Hollywood 

129, 397-398, 400, 
413, 613-614, 801, 
803, 916 




1120-1121, 1123 


189-192, 197 

764, 767, 804, 1190 



Jacob, Berthold 
Jacobsohn, Siegfried 
Jacomet, Daniel 
Janka, Walter 

"Kein Experiment 'Goya' 
und kein Weltlauf" 
Jannings, Emil 
Jaures, Jean 
Jecht, Dorothea 
Jefferson, Thomas 
Jeritza, Maria 
Jessner, Leopold 

Jewish Restitution Successor 

Jew Siiss (film) 
Jhering, Herbert 

Joachim, Hans Arno 

Johnson, Lament 

The Execution of Private Slovik 
The Missiles of October 

975-976, 1248-1249 

302, 530, 760 


1667-1669, 1680, 



278, 467 
134-135, 136 

423, 460, 515, 564- 
565, 567-568, 641b, 
799, 807-808, 1291, 


551, 732 

424, 458, 567, 572, 
598, 1363 


1608-1609, 1612 




Jones, James 

From Here to Eternity 
Jonson, Ben 

R ome 
Josephus, Flavius 

Joyce, James 
Jud Siiss (film) 
Jugend, Die (periodical) 
Juilliard Quartet 




66, 89-91, 171, 

731, 1476 

679-681, 1233 


125, 129, 397, 613 



Kafka, Franz 
Kahn, Ferdinand 
Kahn, Lothar 

Insight and Action: 


Life and Work of Lion 

Mirrors of the Jewish Mind 
Kahn, Otto 
Kahn-Bieker, V7erner 

Kaim, Walter 
Kain (periodical) 
Kaiser, Georg 

Von Morgens bis Mitternachts 
Zwei Krawatten (Two Ties) 

Kamnitzer, Heinz 

Per Tod des Dichters 

Kampers, Fritz 

Kandinsky, Wassily 

Kanova, Maria 

see Mann, Maria Kanova 

Kant, Immanuel 

Kantorowicz, Alfred 

Kaplan, Abbot 
Kaplan, Ralph 
Kapp, Friedrich, Putsch 
Karolyi, Michael 
Karzma, Leonard 
Kaufman, Annette 
Kaufman, Louis 
Kaufmann, Adolf 




84, 1731-1733 




737-738, 827-828, 

836, 841-842, 886, 

924-925, 1141 

1360, 1362 

104, 143, 272 

412-413, 748-750, 

759-760, 957 







933, 1072, 1076, 

1083, 1113, 1386- 








1534, 1719-1720 

354, 363, 386, 543 


Kaufmann, Henry Heinz 
Kaus, Gina 

Kazantzakis, Nikos 

KCET television, Los Angeles 

Kerans, James 

Kerenski, Aleksandr 

Kerr, Alfred 

Per Kramerspiegel (w. Strauss) 
Kerr, Deborah 
Kesten, Hermann 

Keyserling, Eduard Graf von 
Ein Fruhlingsopfer 

( Sacrifice of Spring ) 
Keyserling (play) 
Khrushchev, Nikita 
Kiderlen, Hans Rolf 
Kiepenheuer, Gustav 


Kilty, Jerome 

Dear Liar 
Kingdon, Frank 
Kipling, Rudyard 

Kirsch, Robert 
Kishinev pogrom 
Kissinger, Henry 
Klabund (Alfred Henschke) 

Kreidekreis ( The Chalk Circle ) 
Kleine-Scheidegg, Switzerland 
Klement, Otto 
Klemperer, Otto 

Klenze, Leo von 
Klingelhofer, Johannes[?] 
Knappstein, Karl Heinrich 
Knittel, John 
Knudsen, Vern 

Koblitz, Milton 

Kobus, Kathi 
Koestler, Arthur 

Darkness at Noon 
Kohler, Bernhardt 
Kohner, Frederich 






1298, 1608 








458, 567, 




















719, 724-725, 


19, 340 






765-766, 1045, 

1263, 1285-1286 












105, 273-275 


1495, 1717- 



Kohner, Frederich [cont'd] 
Per Zauberer von Sunset 
Kohner, Paul 
Kokoschka, Oskar 
Kollwitz, Kathe 
Koppenhofer, Maria 

Korbut, Olga 
Korcula, Yugoslavia 
Korn, Peter Jona 
Korngold, Erich 

Kortner, Fritz 

Spell Your Name (w. Thompson) 
Kortner, Johanna 
Kosintsev, Gregory 

Don Quixote (film) 

Hamlet (film) 

King Lear (film) 

Kossmann, Herr 

Koster, Henry 

KPFK radio, Los Angeles 
Kramer, Stanley 

Bless the Beasts and Children 

Kramer, Frau von 

Krauss, Karl 

Die letzten Tage der Menschheit 
(The Last Days of Mankind ) 
Krauss, Werner 
Kreisler, Fritz 
Krenek, Ernst 
Kresse, Elisabeth 
Krupp, Friedrich Alfred 
Krupp, Gustave 
Klihne, Karl 
Kuntz, Maria Angelica 

Kurtze, Ingeborg 
Kutscher, Arthur 







443, 543, 545, 546, 

586, 799 




1231, 1277, 1529, 

1585, 1715 

799, 1216, 1230- 







1079, 1698 

1079, 1698 

1079, 1698 






552, 553, 566, 810 





197, 206 


632-634, 640, 694- 

695, 791, 836, 839- 

843, 1671, 1672 

1727, 1728 

449, 454-455 

Laemmle, Carl 
Lagerlof, Selma 




Lanchester, Elsa 

Landauer, Abraham 

Landauer, Mrs. Abraham 

Landauer, Albert 

Landauer, Gustav 

Landauer, Hermann 

Landauer, Karl 

Landauer, Frau Karl 
Landauer, Walter 
Lang, Fritz 

Hangmen Also Die 
(film w. Brecht) 


Lappen, Chester 
Lappen, Mrs. Chester 
LaRue's Restaurant, Sunset Strip 
Lash, Joseph 

Eleanor and Franklin 
Lasker, Emanuel 
Laughton, Charles 

Lawrence, D.H. 
Lebrun, Albert 
Lee-Thoms, Eta 
Lehmbruck, VJilhelm 
Lekisch, Madame ("The Angel 

of Nlmes") 
Lenbach, Franz von 
Lenin, Vladimir 
Leningrad, USSR 
Lenya, Lotte 

Leonhard, Rudolf 

Les Mi lies, France, internment camp 

Lessing, Gotthold 
Letter , The (film) 
Lewis, Sinclair 

Ann Vickers 
Main Street 





412, 414, 





738, 901 







1195, 1385 



1612, 1717 



1103, 1246 





807, 810 














339, 341, 


586-587, 669-670, 








624-626, 753, 778, 

793, 1381, 1382- 

1383, 1565 




991, 1006, 



Leyen, Friedrich van der 
Lichtenstatter, Siegfried 
Li Destri, Count 

Liebknecht, Karl 

Life (periodical) 

Lincoln, Abraham 

Lincoln Center, New York City 

Lindner, Alois 

Lindstrom, Peter 

Lingen, Marianne Zoff Brecht 

Lingen, Theo 

Lion Feuchtwanger : A Collection 

of Critical Essays "TSpalek, ed , ) 
Lisbon, Portugal 

Lissauer, Ernst 

"Hassgesang auf England" 

("Hate Song Against England") 
Literary Guild 
Litvinne, Felia 

Livingston, Mr. 

Lloyd, Norman 

Lloyd, Suzanne 
Loeffler, Gumpert 
Loeffler, Ida 

Loeffler, Johanna Reitlinger 

Loeffler, Leopold 

Loeffler and Landauer 
Loffler, Sally 
London, Charmian 

454, 456-457 
180, 752 

219-222, 223-224 










572, 574 

435, 574 

65, 110, 

446, 571- 

112, 1725 
















1034, 1036- 


, 1406, 1408. 

21, 28 

6-10, 12, 14, 
19, 21-22, 24, 
27-29, 31, 33, 
37-39, 41, 42, 
67-68, 127, 

150-152, 155, 159, 
167, 174, 178-179, 
184, 188, 276, 652 
655-657, 813 
4-9, 15, 18, 21-22, 
24, 27-29, 31, 33, 
35, 37-39, 41, 
53, 120, 121, 


159, 167, 










London, Jack 
London, England 

London News (newspaper) 

London Times (newspaper) 

Lorca, Federico Garcia 

Lorre, Peter 

Los Angeles County Museum of Art 

Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra 

Los Angeles Times (newspaper) 

Losey, Joseph 
Lourdes, France 
Louvain, Belgium 
Louvre museum, Paris 
Loyola, Ignatius 
Luchaire, Antonia Valentin 
Luchaire, Julian 

Confessions d'un Francais 
Ludendorff, Erich 

Ludwig II (king of Bavaria) 
Ludwig III (king of Bavaria) 
Ludwig Ferdinand (prince of Bavaria) 
Ludwig, Dr. 

Frau Dr. 


Mrs. Emil 







Luitpold (prince regent of Bavaria) 

Lumiere, Louis Jean 

Lumumba, Patrice 

Lustig, Jan 

Luxemburg, Rosa 

Lyons, Leonard 
























674-675, 1061- 

1063, 1093, 1309 


341, 371, 378, 387, 

508, 510 

10-11, 34, 59 





648, 1138-1140 



11, 43, 180 




385-386, 446 



Macaulay, Thomas 
McCarthy, Joseph 

MacDonald, Ramsay 
Madrid, Spain 

285, 323 

1327, 1370, 1438, 

1444, 1516, 1539, 

1572, 1632 

615, 863-864, 866- 

867, 893 

596, 602 


Maeterlinck, Maurice 

Magnus, Professor 
Magnus, Grace 
Mahler, Anna 

1129, 1130, 

busts of Anna Bing, Otto 
Klemperer, Arnold 
Schoenberg, Bruno 
Walter, and Franz Werfel 
Mahler, Gustav 

Mahler-Werf el. Alma 

And the Bridge Is Love 
Mailer, Norman 
Mainz, Germany 
Mainz Academy 

Feuchtwanger Room 

Maizlich, Mrs. 
Malaga, Spain 

Malloch, William 
Malraux, Andre 
Maltz, Albert 
Mann, Daniel 
Mann, Erika 

Mann, Golo 
Mann, Heinrich 








513-514, 682, 948, 
1029, 1071, 1216, 

944, 947, 948- 
980-981, 982, 
1037, 1038- 
1045, 1071, 

1282, 1283, 













1675-1678, 1684, 






670-672, 1446 


487, 706, 1250- 

1252, 1424, 1526- 


1017, 1021, 
1424, 1674 
297-299, 300, 
409-411, 454, 
523-524, 534, 
540, 562, 673 
748, 809-810, 
896-897, 900, 
967, 981, 1017, 

1018, 1021, 1022- 
1023, 1061, 1107, 
1159, 1190, 1192- 




Mann, Heinrich [cont'd] 1193, 1199-1208, 

1215, 1230, 1342, 
1387, 1424, 1433, 
1434, 1446, 1513, 
1524, 1527, 1558, 
Professor Unrat 674, 1199, 1207 

( The Blue Angel ) 
"The Sister" 540 

Per Untertan ( The Subject ) 297, 676 

Mann, Heinrich, Archive, East Berlin 1387, 1389 

Mann, Katia Pringsheim 30, 299, 410, 518, 

887-888, 1071, 
1145, 1199, 1202, 
1203, 1208-1209, 
1220, 1233-1234, 
1274, 1424, 1446, 
Unwritten Memories 1234, 1274 

Mann, Klaus 486, 1397-1398, 


Mann, Maria Kanova 409, 410, 524, 675 

Mann, Michael 1717 

Mann, Nelly - 981, 1021, 1022- 

1023, 1193, 1199- 
1203, 1206, 1208, 
1236-1237, 1446, 

Mann, Thomas 30, 71, 125, 297, 

298-299, 343, 409- 
411, 429, 486-487, 
514, 518, 528, 532, 
534, 538-539, 596, 
675-676, 677, 706, 
805, 845, 873, 878, 
886, 887-888, 891, 
899-900, 910-912, 
947, 953, 981, 1017, 
1058, 1068, 1069- 
1071, 1080, 1114, 
1119-1120, 1134, 
1190, 1192-1193, 
1199, 1200, 1204, 
1207, 1208-1211, 
1212-1215, 1219, 
1220-1222, 1250- 
1252, 1291, 1301, 
1302, 1308, 1328, 
1329, 1348, 1396, 


Mann, Thomas [cont'd] 

Betrachtungen eines 


( Reflections of a 

Non-Political Man ) 

The Confessions of Felix Krull 
Doktor Faustus 

Joseph and His Brothers 

Konigliche Hoheit 
( Royal Highness ) 

Lotte in Weimar 

The Magic Mountain 

Mannerheim, Carl 
Manners, Diana 

Mannesmanngesellschaf t, Morocco 
Mannheim, Germany 
Mannheim Museum of Art 
Mannheimer, Victor 
Marc, Franz 
Marcuse, Herbert 
Marcuse, Ludwig 

Me in zwanzigste Jahrhundert 
Marcuse, Sascha 

Margerie, Pierre de 

Marian, Ferdinand 

Marianao Club, Cuba 

Marie Antoinette (queen of France) 

Marie, Arnold 
Marlowe, Christopher 

Edward II 
Marseilles, France 

Martin, Herr & Frau 

1397, 1403, 
1429, 1430, 
1446, 1478, 
1571, 1572, 
1602, 1669, 
297, 1213 




1068, 1069-1071, 

1209, 1478 

947, 1058 













1209, 1329 


Marx, Julius (Groucho) 

137, 310 

894-895, 921, 957, 
981, 1062, 1266- 
1267, 1299-1300, 
1309-1319, 1360, 
1368, 1466, 1528 

895, 957, 1311, 
1316, 1318, 1528 

552, 553 

1480, 1535, 1539, 

998-999, 1012- 
1026, 1092 


Marx, Karl 1538 

Massary, Fritzi 1216, 1528 
Massary, Lisl 

see Frank, Lisl 

Mather, Cotton 1437, 1443 

Mathis, Quentin[?] 786 

Matray, Ernst 1380 

Matthau, Walter 1224 

Maultasch, Margareta 615, 786 

Mayer, Carl 806 

Mayer, Louis B. 1230 

Mehta, Mehli 1712-1713 

Mehta, Mrs. Mehli 1713 

Mehta, Zubin 1712, 1713 

Meier-Graefe, Julius 879-880, 951-952 

Vincent van Gogh : A 879 
Biographical Study 

Meier-Graefe, Frau Julius 879-880 
Melchett, Lord(s) and Lady 

see entries under Mond 

Melilli, Sicily 218a 

Melnitz, William 1183, 1681, 1718 

Melone, Major 1143-1144 

Melvin, Bob - 1653-1655 

Mendelsohn, Eric 763 

Merrill, Gary 1722 

Messina, Sicily 211-212 

Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios 16 98 

Metropolitan Opera 134, 1456 

Meyer, Mr. 319-321 

Meyer, A.W. 660-663 

Meyer, Agnes 1269, 1328, 1382 

Meyer, August L. 596-597 

Meyer, Conrad Ferdinand 316 

Meyer, Eugene 1242 

Meyer, Florence 

see Homolka, Florence 

Meyer, Hans 1369 

Michaelis, Karin 838, 1163 

Michaels, S. 964-965 

Michel, Dr. 578-579 

Michelangelo 168, 170, 189, 


David 168 

Schiavoni 168 

Michener, James 1534 

Mies van der Rohe, Ludwig 5 78, 57 9 

Milestone, Lewis 1295, 1358 

Miller, Arthur 1346, 1417, 1448- 


Miller, Arthur [cont'd] 
After the Fall 
The Crucible 

Miller, Henry 

Miller, Justin 

Miller, May Merrill 
First the Blade 
Miller, Susi 

Mistinguett, La 
Mitchell, Margaret 

Gone with the Wind 
Moenius, Pater 
Moholy-Nagy, Laszlo 
Moissi, Alexander 
Moll, Fraulein 

Mend, Alfred (Lord Melchett) 
Mond, Henry (Lord Melchett) 

Mond, Sonia Graham (Lady Melchett) 

Monheimer, Mr. 

Monreale, Sicily 
Monroe, Marilyn 

Monte Carlo, Monaco 

Monte Carlo Opera 
Monte Corvo Wine 
Moose, Erich 
Morgan, Edward 
Morgenstern, Christian 
Morgenthau, Henry 
Moscow, USSR 

Mosheim, Crete 

Mottl, Felix 

Mount St. Mary's College, 

Los Angeles 
Mount Sinai Hospital, Los Angeles 
Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus 


The Magic Flute 
Mrs. Miniver (film) 
Mlihsam, Erich 















549, 550, 617- 
783-790, 866 
617, 787-789 
119, 155 

1346, 1417, 














155-156, 161-164, 

231, 271-272, 

1050, 1440 







954, 957-967, 1691, 

1693-1694, 1697- 



326, 513, 514 


1581, 1587 

146-147, 765, 






275, 358 


143, 272- 


Miller, Arthur [cont'd] 
After the Fall 
The Crucible 

Miller, Henry 

Miller, Justin 

Miller, May Merrill 
First the Blade 
Miller, Susi 

Mistinguett, La 
Mitchell, Margaret 

Gone with the Wind 
Moenius, Pater 
Moholy-Nagy, Laszlo 
Moissi, Alexander 
Moll, Fraulein 

Mond, Alfred (Lord Melchett) 
Mond, Henry (Lord Melchett) 

Mond, Sonia Graham (Lady Melchett) 

Monheimer, Mr. 

Monreale, Sicily 
Monroe, Marilyn 

Monte Carlo, Monaco 

Monte Carlo Opera 
Monte Corvo Wine 
Moose, Erich 
Morgan, Edward 
Morgenstern, Christian 
Morgenthau, Henry 
Moscow, Soviet Union 

Mosheim, Crete 

Mottl, Felix 

Mount St. Mary's College, 

Los Angeles 
Mount Sinai Hospital, Los Angeles 
Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus 


The Magic Flute 
Mrs. Miniver (film) 
Muhsam, Erich 















, 549, 550, 
. 783-790, 









548, 549, 550, 617- 

618, 783-790, 866 

548, 617 

96, 119, 


1320, 1346 


155-156, 161-164, 

231, 271-272, 

1050, 1440 







954, 957-967, 1691, 

1693-1694, 1697- 



326, 513, 514 


1581, 1587 

146-147, 765, 






275, 358 


143, 272- 


Miihsam, Erich [cont'd] 

Miiller, Georg 
Miiller, Gerda 
Mullereisert, Otto 

Miinchner Neusten Nachrichten 

Munich, Germany 

see also Schwabing district, 

Hof garten 

Kiinstler Theater 
Neue Zeitung (newspaper) 
Post (newspaper) 
Rateregierung regime 



State Hospital 
State Library 
State Theater 








399, 494, 502, 
771, 1250, 1443 


349, 507 


1-155, 172-176, 
178-189, 276, 281- 
284, 287-321, 326- 
327, 341-390, 396- 
430, 444, 445-457, 
461-563, 568a-575, 


613, 641a, 641d, 
681, 683, 687, 
718-723, 740- 
745-752, 772, 
805, 837, 910- 

1174, 1192, 
1248, 1433- 

312, 527-528 
181-182, 508 
10, 11-12, 183 
354, 364, 
399, 400, 













349, 378, 


103, 287, 


309, 312, 


147, 312, 

96, 103, 

396, 398- 
421, 423, 


319-321, 342- 

411-419, 446, 

507, 687-692, 

800, 837, 

498, 508, 



380, 1673 
172, 356, 


Munich, Germany 

State Theater [cont'd] 

Murnau, Friedrich Wilhelm 
Murphy, Dudley 
Murphy, Franklin D. 
Murrow, Edward R. 
Music Center of Los Angeles County 

Mark Taper Forum 

Music Guild, Los Angeles 
Mussolini, Benito 

















396, 407-408, 
414, 586, 613, 

306, 382 


, 1718-1719 

-1188, 1263- 
a, 1498 
-1188, 1298, 

646-648, 916, 
974, 1094, 

, 1252 


Naples, Italy 

Napoleon I (emperor of the French) 

Nathan, Robert 

Nation (periodical) 

National Association for American 

Composers and Conductors 
National Socialist German Workers' 

(Nazi) party, Germany 
see also Hitler, Adolf 

Neher, Carola 
Neher, Caspar 

Neikrug, Georg 
Nelson, Robert 


1257, 1453, 1473, 


1103-1104, 1529- 

1530, 1532, 1533 
























104, 1 

275, 2 



589, 5 



777, 7 



, 1118 

, 1396 

, 1521 

, 1556 

, 1617 











, 1363- 

, 1439, 








424-425, 495- 
543-544, 599, 


Nero (Roman emperor) 
Neuilly, Count of 
Neumann, Alfred 

Neumann, Robert 
Neutra, Dione 
Neutra, Richard 

Newsweek (periodical) 
New York, New York 

Nicholas II (czar of Russia) 
Nichols, Dudley 
Nielsen, Asta 
Nietzsche, Friedrich 
Nlmes, France 

Nixon, Richard 
Nizer, Louis 

Thinking on Your Feet 
Nobel Prize 



Nogales, Mexico 
Nono, Luigi 
Nuremberg Chronicle 

Nuremberg trials 

Nussbaum, Max 
Nys, Nicolas 














1043-1047, 1096- 

1108, 1124-1133 

339-341, 1215 



10 70 

983, 991, 999-10( 





624-625, 626-628, 
675, 764, 900, 
1209, 1210-1211 
303, 1664-1665 



714, 1476, 


274, 914, 







Oberndorfer, Anna 
Oberndorfer, Siegfried 

Odets, Clifford 

None But the Lonely Heart 
O'Donnell, Catherine 
Odyssey (Homer) 
Offenbach, Jacques 

La Belle Helene 
Ohad, Henny Feuchtwanger (Reich) 

31, 32-33 

29, 31, 421, 179- 

180, 652, 655 

1231, 1276, 1292, 

1346, 1414-1417, 





34, 133-136 


68, 73, 76, 

1276, 1415 


115, 186, 872 


Ohad, Mischa (Reich) 
Oistrakh, David 
O'Neill, Eugene 
Ophuls, Marcel 

The Sorrow and the Pity (film) 
Ophuls, Max 

Oppenheimer, Joseph Sliss 
Orska, Maria 
Ossietzky, Karl von 
Ossietzky, Maud von 

Erzahlt : Bin Lebensbild 
Ostheim, Count 
Ostheim, Countess 
Osuna, Duke of 
Otto I (king of Bavaria) 






302, 1664-1665 

303, 1663-1666 
822, 1153-1154 
1153-1158, 1600 


227, 845 

Pacific Palisades/Santa Monica, 

Pacifica Press 
Paderewski, Ignace Jan 
Paestum, Italy 
Palermo, Sicily 

Pallagonia, Sicily 

Pan-Europa movement 

Papen, Franz von 

Paris, France 

Paris Neue Tagebuch (newspaper) 

Pariser Tageblatt (newspaper) 

Parone, Edward 

Parsky, Thomas 

Parsons, Harriet 

Pasetti, Leo 

Pasternak, Boris 

Doctor Zhivago 
Pasternak, Joe 
Pauling, Linus 

see Poets, Essayists, and 

941-943, 1066- 

1072, 1095-1096, 

1110-1114, 1133- 

1264, 1269-1305, 

1309-1656, 1708- 





223-225, 233-234, 



114, 415 

770, 774 

593-596, 597 

901, 969 

901, 979 





627, 1079, 1210- 

1211, 1698 





Petrov, Yevgeny 

Pfalzische Weinstube, Munich 

Pfitzner, Hans 

Philippe-Egalite (duke of Orleans) 

Phoebus Club, Munich 

Piatigorsky, Gregor 

Piatigorsky, Jacqueline de 

Pietra Ligure, Italy 
Pinkerton, John 

General Collection of the 
Best and Most Interesting 
Piscator, Erwin 
Pius X (pope) 
Pius XII (pope) 

Poets, Essayists, and Novelists 
(PEN) club 

Congress of the Burned 
Books, Paris 
Pommer, Erich 
Pompeii, Italy 
Port-Bou, Spain 
Porten, Henny 
Poschart, Maria 
Potsdam, Germany 
Prado museum, Madrid 
Prague, Czechoslovakia 


Jewish Museum (and cemetery) 

Statni Zidovske Museum 
Pravda (newspaper) 
Preminger, Otto 

Princeton University 
Princip, Gavrilo 
Pringsheim, Alfred 

Pringsheim, Frau Alfred 
Prinzregenten Cafe, Munich 
Prittwitz und Guffron, Friedrich von 


406, 497-498 



116-119, 352, 478a, 

479, 519 

1493, 1494, 1636, 



161, 166-167 






614, 622-623, 762- 

763, 798, 897-899, 

944-946, 970, 1105, 

1132, 1210, 1269 



198-199, 226 


568, 808 



596, 602, 1450 

956, 967, 1655, 

1684-1690, 1691- 



1655, 1685-1686 



1230, 1321-1322, 




30, 518, 596, 910- 






Pritzel, Lotte 

Provence, France 
Puccini, Giacomo 
Putnam's Sons, G.P 
Putti, Lya de 


524, 529 





402, 429, 

Querido, Emanuel 

738, 868, 869, 901, 
903, 1520 

Radek, Karl Bernardovich 
Radio in t±ie American Sector 

(RIAS), Berlin 
Rainer, Luise 
Rapallo, Treaty of 
Rathenau, Walter 

Red Cross 
Reger, Erik 

Union der Festen Hand 
Reger, Max 
Regler, Gustav 
Reich, Bernhard 
Reichenbach, Clara 
Reichenbach, Hans, Sr . 
Reichenbach, Hans, Jr. 

Reinhardt, Max 

Reinitzsky, Reiner 
Reisch, Walter 
Reitlinger, Ida 
Reitlinger, Johanna 

see Loeffler, Johanna Reitlinger 
Reitlinger, Leo 

Reitlinger, Nanette Sulzbacher 
Reitlinger, Nathan[?] 
Reitlinger, Sedonie 

see Bacharach, Sedonie Reitlinger 


1346, 1347 


104, 301, 387, 

466-467, 769 

1008, 1032 









1234, 1235 



95, 128, 130-131, 

132-137, 238, 333, 

361, 400, 401, 404, 

413, 478a, 515, 568, 

573, 693, 799, 912, 

1121, 1136, 1188, 

1291, 1378, 1380 



2-3, 4 


1-2, 4, 5, 14 

1-3, 14-15 


Remarque, Erich Maria 

All Quiet on the Western Front 
Rembrandt van Rijn 

Remolt, Emmy 
Renoir, Jean 

Grand Illusion 

My Life and My Films 
Reserve, La, Bandol, France 
Reynaud, Paul 
Reznicek, Ferdinand 
Richardson, Ralph 
Riefenstahl, Leni 

The Olympiad 

The White Hell of Pitz Palu 
Rilke, Rainer Maria 

Rimbaud, Arthur 
Ringelnatz, Joachim 
Rivers, Leslie 
Robespierre, Maximilien de 
Robinson, Edward G. 

Robinson, Gladys Cassell 
Robinson, Jane Bodenheimer 
Rockefeller Institute 
Roda, Roda 
Rodia, Simon 
Rohm, Ernst 
Roland, Ida 
Rolland, Roma in 
Remains, Jules 

Doctor Knock 

Les Homme s de Bonne Volonte 
Remains, Lise Dreyfus 
Romanisches Cafe, Berlin 
Rome, Italy 

Arch of Titus 


Trevi Fountain 
Rommel, Erwin 
Ronda, Spain 
Roosevelt, Eleanor 

553, 561, 725, 755, 
756-759, 1045, 1342, 

758, 797 

783, 1522-1523, 



806-807, 1190, 

1295-1296, 1358 

807, 1295 


849-851, 881-882 




699-705, 835 

702, 703 


12, 231, 362, 400, 

691, 1121-1122 





1021, 1217, 1322, 




518, 630 

137, 430-431, 644 



114, 415, 416 


623, 898, 970, 1103, 

1104-1105, 1269 





168-172, 269, 275- 

276, 727, 1489-1490 

90-91, 170 

170, 727 




792-793, 983, 992, 

1008, 1098, 1102- 


Roosevelt, Eleanor [cont'd] 
Roosevelt, Franklin 

Rosenberg family, Munich 

Rosenthal, Erwin 

Rosenthal, Henri 

Rosenthal (Munich bookdealer) 

Rossellini, Roberto 

Rossen, Robert 

Rossler, Karl 

Rostropovitch, Mitslav 

Rothschild, Baby 

Rothschild, Goldschmied 

Rothschild family 

Rotter, Alf 

Rotter, Fritz 

Rousseau, Jean Jacques 


Treatise on the Inequality 
of Human Beings 
Rowohlt, Ernst (publisher) 
Rubinstein, Artur 
Rubinstein, Sascha 

Riigen, Germany 

Rupprecht (crown prince of Bavaria) 

Russell, Bertrand 

Russian War Relief 

Russo, Anthony 

Rycquius , Justi 

De Capitolio Romano 

1103, 1131, 1240- 

1241, 1276 

822, 1013, 1025, 

1100, 1102-1103, 

1128, 1131, 1255, 

1348-1349, 1382- 

1383, 1392, 1400, 



1475, 1497 


1472-1475, 1497 


1323, 1358-1359 






840, 893-894 

840, 893-894 

1409, 1479, 1491, 

1496, 1546-1547 



753, 857-858, 1519 










Saale Zeitung (newspaper) 
St. Jean-de-Luz, France 
Saint-Just, Louis Antoine Leon de 
St. Moritz, Hotel, Nev; York 
Saint Nicolas, France, internment 

St. Peter's Basilica, Rome 





983, 991-993, 999- 

1006, 1008-1016, 

1083-1084, 1386- 

1388, 1435 



Sakuntala (Indian play) 
Salazar, Antonio 
Salvemini, Gaetano 
Sanary-sur-mer, France 

Sandburg, Carl 
Sankt Anton, Austria 

Santa Monica, California 
see Pacific Palisades 

Saturday Review (periodical) 

Saueressig, Heinz 

Schacht, Hjalmar 

Schallert, Edwin 

Schallert, William 

Scharwenka, Frank 

Scharwenka Hall, Berlin 

Schary, Do re 

Schaubijhne , Die (periodical) 
see also Weltbiihne 

Scheler, Max 
Scheuchzer, Johann Jacob 

Copper Bible 
Schickele, Rene 

Hans im Schakenloch 
Schiller, Johann Christoph 
Friedrich von 

Kabale und Liebe 
Schine, G. David 
Schlamm, Mr. 

Schleiermacher, Friedrich 
Schmidt, Lars 
Schnauber, Cornelius 

"Feuchtwanger as a Theater 
Schneeberger, Hans 

285, 323, 751 

679, 716-717, 750, 
854, 862, 873- 
915-953, 966- 
992, 1010, 
1048, 1054- 
1072, 1080, 
1093-1096, 1097, 
1112-1113, 1265- 
1269, 1282, 1305- 
1434, 1631, 














102, 136 





327, 336 



82, 102, 136, 162, 

190, 192, 284, 286, 

353, 530-531 

417, 418, 448 



862, 878-879, 895, 



33, 749, 1250, 

1525, 1527 



1097-1098, 1131 

307, 308 


1466, 1724-1725 




Schneider, Hannes 

Schneider, Frau Hannes 
Schoenberg, Arnold 

Moses and Aaron 

Pierrot Lunaire 
Schoenberg, Barbara Zeisl 
Schoenberg, Jill Whittle 
Schoenberg, Lawrence 
Schoenberg, Nuria (Nono) 
Schoenberg, Ronald 
Schoenberg, Trude 

Schoenfeld, Alice 
Schoenfeld, Eleonore 
Schonebeck, Sybille von 

Schroeder, Karl 
Schubert, Franz 

Unfinished Symphony 
Schulberg, Budd 
Schiitz, Klaus 
Schwabing district, Munich 

Schwarzschild, Leopold 
Schweitzer, Albert 
Scott, Walter 
Scudder, Eric 

Scylla and Charybdis, Italy 
Seabrook, William 

Jungle Ways 
Seeker, Martin 
Seeker, Martin, Ltd. 
Seeker, Mrs. Martin 
Sedan Feier (festivals) 
Seeckt, Hans von 

581-585, 586, 632, 

700, 703, 704-705, 

847, 933 


765, 1060, 1069- 

1071, 1110-1111, 

1144, 1216, 1263, 

1276-1278, 1281- 

1285, 1402-1403, 

1525, 1575, 1711, 









1070, 1110, 1216, 




884, 949-950, 1056- 

1057, 1059 





306-311, 312, 319- 

321, 341-343, 378, 

380-381, 398-430, 

481-482, 745-751, 


901, 969-971, 972 











548, 550 




832, 941-943, 
1152, 1277- 



617, 856 


Seeler, Moritz 
Segesta, Sicily 
Seghers, Anna 

Das siebte Kreuz 

( The Seventh Cross ) 
Seidel, Annemarie 
Seifert, Adolf 
Seifert, Mrs. Adolf 
Selinunte, Sicily 
Serenissimus cafe, Munich 
Serkin, Rudolf 
Sernau-Humm, Lola 

Seville, Spain 
Sforza, Carlo 
Shakespeare, William 

The Tempest 
Sharp, Hastings Waitstill 

Sharp, Mrs. Hastings Waitstill 

Shaw, Artie 

Shaw, George Bernard 

Major Barbara 
Sheldon, Bertram 
Shrine Auditorium 
Shubert Theatre, Los Angeles 

Sidi-bou-Said, Tunisia 
Sieber, Rolf 

Siebert Institute, Munich 
Sieroty, Alan 
Sila, La, Italy 
Simon and Schuster 
Simonis, Susanne 
Simons, Leonard 
Simons-Michaelson Foundation 
Simplicissimus (periodical) 
Simplicissimus cafe, Munich 
Sinclair, Upton 

Mountain City 
Sinn und Form (periodical) 
Siqueiros, David 



899, 1347 

899, 1347 


927, 1265-1269 

927-930, 1265-1269 




829-831, 832, 834, 

887, 906, 908, 909, 

936, 939, 969-970, 

984, 997, 1016, 1099, 

1267, 1311, 1466 


915-916, 1093-1094 

285, 388, 390, 422, 

567, 749, 803, 1181, 

1491, 1492 


1023, 1024, 1029, 

1030-1031, 1032, 

1033-1035, 1092 


1292, 1293 

618-619, 680, 1182, 

1298, 1608 





211-234, 237-238 




















Smith, Joseph 

Sobotka, Mr. 

Sobotka, Harry 

Social Democratic party, Germany 


Sombart, Werner 

Sondergaard, Gale 


Spalek, John 

Lion Feuchtwanger ; A 
Collection of Critical 

Spartacists League, Berlin 

Sperling, Milton 

Sperlinga, Sicily 

Speyer, Wilhelm 

Spiegel, Sam 

Spiegel , Per : Mlinchner 

Halbmonatsschrif t fur Literatur, 
Musik, und Buhne (periodical) 

Spiess, Herr 

Spinoza, Baruch 

Spiro, Emil 
Spohr, Ludwig 
Sproul, Robert G. 
Sputnik (satellite) 
Stalin, Josef 

Stalingrad, Battle of 
Standish, Myles 
Starnberger See, Germany 
Steffin, Margarete 
Steinbeck, John 

The Grapes of Wrath 
Steinecke, "Papa" 
Steinecke bookshop, Munich 
Steiner, Rudolf 
Steinriick, Albert 
Stern, Giinther 
Stern, Isaac 
Sterna, Katta 
Sternberg, Fritz 
Sternheim, Carl 

Don Juan 










279-281, 770, 


65, 1725 

376, 385, 421 

213-214, 219 
297-298, 981 
1322-1325, 1328 


15, 8 




























7, 93, 1478- 

59, 961-962, 
1078, 1128, 

1257, 1375, 
1431a, 1532, 

37, 543 


400, 413 



Steuermann, Augusta 
Stieg, Louis 
Stifter, Adalbert 
Stone, Irving 

Lust for Life 

Sailor on Horseback 
Stone, Mrs. Irving 
Story, Ralph 

Strassburg, Gottfried von 
Strauss, Oskar 
Strauss, Richard 

Per Kramer Spiegel (w. Kerr) 
Per Rosenkavalier 
Stravinsky, Igor 

L' Histoire d' un Soldat 

Streb, Pr. 

Streb sisters 
Stresemann, Joachim 
Stresemann, Wolfgang 
Strich, Fritz 
Strich, Walter 
Strindberg, August 

Easter (Pask) 

Fraulein Julia 

The Ghost Sonata 
Stroessner, Alfredo 
Stroheim, Erich von 
Stuck, Franz von 
Stiirgkh, Karl von 

Suddeutsche Monatshefte (periodical) 
Sulzbacher, Nanette 

see Reitlinger, Nanette Sulzbacher 
Swerling , Jo 

Syracuse, Sicily 











35, 46, 765, 919- 




35, 46 

1403, 1455, 1710- 

























1167, 1196, 1325, 



228, 237-238 

Tabouis, Genevieve 
Talmessinger, Herr 
Tamkin, Pavid 





Temianka, Henri 

Temple Isaiah, Los Angeles 
Terracina, Italy 
Terwin, Johanna 
Tetzel, Joan 

see Homolka, Joan 
The End of Yom Kippur (film) 
Theater Union, New York 
Theresienstadt concentration camp 

Thomas, J. Parnell 
Thompson, Dorothy 

Spell Your Name (w. Kortner) 
Thony, Wilhelm 
Thousand and One Nights , A 
Thule Gesellschaft 
Time (periodical) 

Toch, Ernst 

Jefta (Fifth Symphony) 

Toch, Lilly 

Toledo, Spain 
Toller, Ernst 

Tolstoy, Alexander 
Tolstoy, Leo 
Torberg, Friedrich 

Parodien und Post Scripta 
Torggelstube (v/ine restaurant) , 

Townsend, Stanley 
Trenker, Luis 
Trepka, Hartmann 

831, 1637-1638, 
1717-1718, 1724 
1115, 1616 
95, 173 



72-73, 481, 872, 

986, 1247, 1249, 



624-625, 1127, 

1129, 1381-1383, 




249, 250 


1096-1101, 1131, 


765, 811-812, 1183, 

1216, 1231, 1235, 

1494, 1528-1529, 

1585, 1586-1590, 

1715-1716, 1733, 

1747, 1749, 1757 


1216, 1529, 1585, 

1586-1587, 1721, 

1747, 1757 


381-384, 390, 391, 

687-688, 770, 860, 

895, 921 





104-106, 126-127, 

136, 146, 272, 293, 

296-297, 298, 301, 

311, 315, 398, 406, 

482, 798, 1121 

1501, 1528 


96-97, 122, 123, 

124, 149-150, 326 


Trier, Germany 
Triesch, Irene 
Trotsky, Leon 
Troxell, Sidney 
Truman, Harry S 
Trumbo, Dalton 
Tucholsky, Kurt 
Tunis, Tunisia 

Turnabout Theatre, Los Angeles 
Twain, Mark 

Twentieth Century Authors 



342, 894 


1400-1401, 1602 




238-241, 243-266 


779, 1492 



Ueberbrettl (Bretter-Stage) , 

Uffizi museum, Florence 
Uhl, Frida 
Ulbricht, Walter 

Ullstein Verlag 

United Nations Association 
U.S. Federal Bureau of 

U.S. House Committee on 

Un-American Activities 

University of California 
University of California, Berkeley 
University of California, 
Los Angeles 

Department of Music 
Macgowan Theatre 
Schoenberg Hall 




1667-1668, 1683, 

1684, 1687 

561, 725-726, 756- 

757, 901, 913, 1344 


1370, 1375, 1574 

556-557, 1175, 1195, 

1225, 1252, 1302, 

1325-1326, 1327, 

1370, 1412, 1415- 

1418, 1425-1426, 

1437, 1444, 1447, 

1516, 1531, 1538- 

1540, 1565-1567, 




670-671, 1278, 1282, 

1299, 1301-1302, 










1475, 1494- 
1606, 1626, 



1494, 1634, 


University of Leipzig 

University of Southern California 

Feuchtwanger Memorial Library 

Friends of the USC Library 

Stopgap Theatre 
Universum-Film Aktien-Gesellschaf t 

Unziker, Wilfang 
Uplifters Club 
Urach, Herzog von 


313, 535, 1151, 
1177, 1299, 1309, 
1312, 1353, 1361, 
1459, 1463, 1466, 
1499, 1501-1504, 
1682-1683, 1724- 
1725, 1733 
1467-1511, 1569a, 
1591, 1648-1651 
600, 755 



Valentin, Antonia 
Valentin, Karl 
Valentin, Frau Karl 
Valery, Paul 

Vasantasena (Indian play) 
Vatican City 
Veidt, Conrad 
Venice, California 
Verdi, Giuseppe 

Verlaine, Paul 

Vernet, France, internment camp 
Versailles Treaty 

Victoria (queen of England) 
Victoria (queen of Spain) 
Vienna, Austria 

Viertel, Berthold 
Viertel, Peter 
Viertel, Salka 

The Kindness of Strangers 
Viking Press 

Villechaise, Dr. 

Villon, Francois 


425, 426-429, 528 



285, 324 


551, 810 

1610-1612, 1652 

161, 766, 1282 

161, 766 


1075-1078, 1388 

367-368, 385, 387, 

414, 464-465, 501, 














1528, 1583 

Vinci, Leonardo da 


547, 1116, 


272, 275, 764 



Vogel, Jochen 

Vogelweide, Walther von der 
Volkischer Beobachter (newspaper) 
Volksverband der Bucherfreunde 
Vollmoeller, Karl 

Das Mirakel 

Vossische Zeitung (newspaper) 


497, 500, 




1479, 1481- 
901, 913, 917 


Wagner, Cosima 
Wagner, Richard 


Waldan, Gustav (Baron von Rummel) 
Waldo, Hilde 

Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, New York 
Walgemut, Michael 
Wallenstein, Alfred 
Walter, Bruno 

Walter, Frau Bruno 
War and Peace (film, 1956) 
Warner, Jack 

Washington Post (newspaper) 
Wassermann, Jakob 
Watts Towers, Los Angeles 
Wayne State University- 
Weber, Arthur 
Weber, Sophia 
Webster, John 

Appius and Virginia 
Wedekind, Anna Pamela 
Wedekind, Frank 


10, 34, 46, 161-163, 

180, 271-272, 680, 


161-163, 271-272 


476, 943, 1132-1133, 

1165, 1172, 1173, 











1152, 1287 

513-515, 518, 575, 

766, 1135, 1216, 

1263, 1284-1286, 

1287, 1288-1290, 

1431a, 1632-1633, 




1330, 1331 

1242, 1382 

538-539, 627, 1210 


1303, 1561 





103, 104, 105-106, 

108-109, 127, 278- 

279, 296-297, 298, 


Wedekind, Frank [cont'd] 

Per Erdgeist 

Fruhlings Erwachen 
Wedekind, Kadidja 
Wedekind, Tilly 

Lulu , die Rolle meines Lebens 
Weidner, John Henry 
Weigel, Helene 

(Mrs. Bertolt Brecht) 

Weil, Felix 
Weill, Kurt 

Weingartner, Felix 
Weinrowsky, Irene 
Weiss-Ferdl (Ferdinand Weiss) 

E rzaehlt 
Weizmann, Chaim 
Wells, H.G. 

WeltbiJhne (periodical) 
see also Schaubiihne 

Wendt, Herbert 

Ich suchte Adam 

Wendt, Ingeborg 

Notopfer Berlin 

Wengen, Switzerland 

Werfel, Alma Mahler 

see Mahler-Werfel, Alma 

Werfel, Franz 

310-311, 315, 
358, 368, 399, 
402-406, 420, 
455, 494-495, 
803, 805, 1119- 









109, 405, 495, 1672 

106, 108-109, 495, 




45, 445-446, 447, 

488, 489, 665-668, 

810, 838, 1051, 

1162-1167, 1176, 

1185, 1194, 1195, 

1196, 1292, 1406- 

1407, 1426, 1428 


586, 666, 667-668, 

766, 1186-1187, 



245, 533-534 



548-550, 784-785 

551, 620, 621, 782 

301-303, 530-531, 

760, 769, 1041, 

1097, 1233, 



944-949, 952-953, 
971, 980-981, 982, 
1021, 1029, 1037, 
1038-1039, 1045, 
1070, 1260-1261, 
1263, 1263a, 1282, 
1283, 1299, 1329, 
1342, 1431-1431a, 


Werfel, Franz [cont'd] 

Embezzled Heaven 

( Per veruntreute Himmel ) 

Forty Days of Musa Dagh 

Song of Bernadette 
Whittle, Alfred 
Wibberley, Leonard 
Wiesbaden State Theater 
Wiesengrund, Theodor 

see Adorno, Theodor 
Wilde, Oscar 

Sa lome 
Wilder, Billy 

The Apartment (film) 
Wilhelm I (kaiser of Germany) 
Wilhelm II (kaiser of Germany) 

Wilhelm Gymnasium, Munich 

Willkie, Wendell 

Willstatter, Richard 

Wilshire Ebell Theatre, Los Angeles 

Wilson, Howard 

Winter, William 

Winters, Shelley 

Wirth, Joseph 

Wittelsbach dynasty 

Witzleben, Count von 

Wolf, Friedrich 

Doktor Mamlock 
Die Matrosen von Cattaro 
Wolf, Konrad 

Wolfenstein, Alfred 

Wolff, Erich 

Wolfskehl, Karl 

Woodlawn Cemetery, Santa Monica 

World' s Greatest Letters , The (book) 

Wright, Frank Lloyd 

Writers ' Congress ; Proceedings 

of the Conference , 1943 
Wunder des Schneeschuhs, Die (film) 


945, 1329, 1738 
947, 982 

435, 564 

99, 100, 143-144, 

319, 388 

99, 100, 388 

1320, 1328 



134, 141-142, 162, 

207-208, 232, 266, 

274, 278, 308, 340, 

345, 350-351, 367, 

410, 415, 465, 519, 


69-70, 94-95 








56, 101, 326 


890, 954-955, 1075, 

1078-1079, 1679 




1079, 1668, 1679, 


369-370, 377-379, 










Wlirttemberg, Max von 
Wyler, William 

The Best Years of Our Live s 

Friendly Persuasion (film) 
The Heiress (film) 
The Letter (film) 

351, 490 
1320-1321, 1328, 
1395, 1445 


Zeisl, Eric 
Zemach, Benjamin 
Zeppelin, Countess von 
Zimmermann, Johanna 
Zipper, Herbert 
Zipper, Trude 
Zoff, Marianne 

see Lingen, Marianne Zoff Brecht 
Zoff, Otto 
Zola, Emile 

Zuckmayer, Mr. and Mrs. Carl 
Ziihlsdorff, Volkmar von 
Zukunft , Die (periodical) 
Zweig, Arnold 

The Case of Sergeant Grischa 
De Vriendt Goes Home 

( De Vriendt kehrt heim) 
Einsetzung eines Konigs 

(The Making of a King ) 
Erziehung vor Verdun 

( Education Before Verdun) 
Uber Schrifts teller 
Zweig, Mrs. Arnold 

Zweig, Michael 
Zweig, Mrs. Michael 










36-37, 1433 


675, 818-819, 






530-531, 677- 
681, 780, 815, 
873-874, 890, 891, 
894, 903-905, 939- 
1274, 1344, 
1546, 1562- 
1664, 1666- 







679, 1562-1563 



679, 1357 


1376, 1378, 1663, 


873, 894, 1371a-1375 

1372, 1375-1376 



Per Amerikaner 

An den Wassern Baby Ions 

Appius und Virginia 

Per arme Heinrich 

Pie Braut von Korinth 

Pie BriJder Lautensack ( Pouble , 
Pouble , Toil and Trouble ) 

Calcutta , 4th of May 
see Kalkutta , 4 . Mai 

Centum Opuscula 

The Day Will Come 

( Per Tag wird kommen) 
see Josephus trilogy 

The Pevil in Boston 

see Wahn , oder Per Teufel 
In Boston 

The Devil in France 

see Der Teufel in Frankreich 

Donna Bianca 

Pouble , Pouble , Toil and Trouble 
see Die Bruder Lautensack 

Edward II 

see Leben Eduards des Zwitten 

Die Einsamen , Zwei Skizzen 

Erfolg ( Success ) 






939, 1116-1119, 
1148, 1335 

112, 1518-1520 



47, 198, 488, 507- 

508, 580-581, 585, 

588, 589, 597, 625, 

694, 711, 715, 718- 

721, 724-725, 728- 

729, 730, 731, 734- 


Erfolg ( Success ) [cont'd) 

Exil ( Paris Gazette ) 

Per falsche Nero ( The Pretender ) 

Per Fetisch ( The Fetish ) 

Friede ( Peace ) 

Pie Geschwister Oppermann 
( The Opperroanns ) 

Pie Gesichte der Simone Machard 
(Simone) (w. Brecht) 

Gesprache mit dem Ewigen Juden 

Goya ( This Is the Hour ) 

see also Goya (East German film) 

735, 768, 772, 781, 
814, 836, 859, 963, 
978, 1022, 1343, 
1357, 1364, 1520, 
1523, 1649-1650, 
1670, 1736 

975-979, 1053 

731, 732-733, 966, 



720, 768, 851, 861, 
863-870, 957-958, 

440, 1167-1168 
1171-1178, 1191, 


966, 1093, 1323, 
1358-1359, 1450- 
1454, 1520, 1521, 
1544, 1546, 1549, 
1678, 1717, 1736 

Pie hassliche Herzogin 
( The Ugly Puchess ) 


387, 484-485, 
540-542, 545- 
547, 561, 583, 
724, 727, 730, 
1520, 1524, 

Pas Haus der Pesdemona 
(The House of Pesdemona) 

"Heinrich Heines Fragment: 
Per Rabbi von Bacherach " 

The House of Pesdemona 

see Pas Haus der Pesdemona 

780, 1301, 1302- 
1305, 1534, 1558- 
1563, 1565, 1605 

85, 81, 160 


Jef ta und seine Tochter 
( Jephta and His Daughter ) 

The Jew of Rome ( Die Sohne ) 
see Josephus trilogy 


Josephus ( Per jiidische Krieg ) 
see J osephus trilogy 

Josephus trilogy ( Per jiidische 
Krieg ; pje Sohne ; Per Tag 
wird kommen) 

1548, 1552-1555, 

Jud Siiss (play) 

Jud Sliss (Power) (novel) 


97, 171, 455-456, 
561, 694, 716-718, 
726-727, 729-731, 
736-737, 836, 839, 
848, 863, 864, 868, 
956, 1016, 1049, 
1272, 1294, 1476, 
1520, 1523, 1544, 

334-338, 408, 525- 
526, 856, 1056 

188, 231, 313, 334- 
338, 482, 484, 485, 
491-494, 525-527, 
535-537, 547, 550- 











561, 614, 625, 
662, 685, 722, 
727-728, 730, 
781, 795, 855- 
1124, 1153, 
1219, 1295, 
1440, 1520, 
1548, 1550, 


Pie Jijdin von Toledo ( Raguel , 
The Jewess of Toledo ) 

245, 605, 730, 1438, 
1440, 1522, 1549- 
1552, 1554, 1722 

Per jiidische Krieg ( Josephus ) 
see Josephus trilogy 

Julia Farnese 



Kalkutta, 4_^ Mai (w. Brecht) 

Konig Saul 

Per Konig und die Tanzerin 

Die Kriegsgefangenen 
( The Prisoners of War ) 

Leben Eduards des Zwitten 
(Edward II) (w. Brecht) 

"Lied der Gefallenen" 

("The Song of the Fallen") 

Moskau, 1937 

Narrenweisheit , oder Tod und 
Verklarung des Jean - Jacques 
Rousseau ( 'Tis Folly to Be 
Wise ) 

Nineteen - eighteen 
see Thomas Wendt 

"The NureiT±)erg Trials: An 
End and a Beginning" 

The Oil Islands 

see Die Petroleum inseln 

The Oppermanns 

see Die Geschwister Oppermann 

Paris Gazette 
see Exil 

Pep , J.L. Wetcheeks Amerikanisches 

Die Perser des Aischylos 

440-442, 581, 587, 

588-593, 1059 

99, 111, 112 

329-330, 408-409 

330-332, 580 

422-425, 434, 438, 
442-443, 444, 458- 
460, 564-567, 568a, 
599, 1169, 1242, 

301-302, 304-305, 
392, 1369, 1556, 

954-969, 971 

1409-1410, 1496, 
1520, 1543, 1544, 
1546-1547, 1611 


495, 778-781, 1026 

113, 285-287, 295, 
315, 354 


Die Petroleuminseln 
( The Oil Islands ) 


see Jud Siiss 

The Pretender 

see Der falsche Nero 

539-540, 586-587 

Prinzessin Hilda 

99-101, 111, 130 

The Prisoners of War 

see Die Kriegsgef angenen 

Proud Destiny 

see Waff en fiir Amerika 

"Psalm of the Cosmopolite" 
(in Josephus ) 

Raquel , The Jewess of Toledo 
see Die Judin von Toledo 

Simone (novel) 


1167-1168, 1300, 
1325, 1384, 1428a- 
1429, 1438, 1442- 

Simone (play) 

see Die Gesichte der 
Simone Machard 

Die Sohne (The Jew of Rome ) 
see Josephus trilogy 

"The Song of the Fallen" 
see "Lied der Gefallenen" 


see Erf olg 

Der Tag wird kommen 
(The Day Will Come ) 
see Josephus trilogy 

Der Teufel in Frankreich 
(The Devil in France) 

1005, 1114-1116 
1171, 1387 


This Is the Hour 
see Goya 

Thomas Wendt (1918) 

'Tis Folly to Be^ Wise 

see Narrenweisheit , oder 
Tod und Verklarung des 
Jean - Jacques Rousseau 

Per tonerne Gott ( The Clay God ) 

The Ugly Duchess 

see Die hassliche Herzogin 



Waff en fiir Amerika 
( Proud Destiny ) 


338, 384, 390- 
437-438, 525- 

110, 148, 527 

285, 324-325, 329- 
330, 408, 470, 478a, 


978, 1187, 1295- 
1296, 1299, 1354- 
1369, 1463- 
1477, 1493- 
1544, 1565, 


Wahn , Oder Per Teufel in Boston 
( The Devil in Boston ) 

Warren Hastings 

see also Kalkutta, 4. Mai 

Das Weib des Urias 

The Widow 
see Die 

Wird Hill 

Witwie Capet 


Die Witwie Capet 
(The Widow Capet) 

1335, 1435-1440, 
1442-1450, 1544 

303-304, 322- 
325-329, 330, 
377, 408, 440- 
588, 590-593, 
766, 917-918, 



581, 588-589 

1480, 1535, 1538- 






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